Hey, everyone how about an informal performance comparison. Since everyone has cars in various states of hopping-up, I suggest everyone post their 3rd gear 50 to 70 mph times, along with the year of your car and what mods you have done. This will make a good comparison of which modifications work best in this "meaty" part of the rev band.

For consistancy, I suggest the following:
1) Manual trannies only, slush box guys can come up with their own system of testing. Start/finish in 3rd gear, no shifting.
2) Perform it several times until you get a good average. Times should stay within +/- 2/10 (0.2) seconds to show consistancy.
3) Post your time. Include location (altitude is a power sucker), a guess at the temperature, year of car, modifications to car.
4) Absolutely NO FUDGING your numbers. This is NOT a competition but an SR20 performance test to help everyone.

I figure this will be a good test because this is where the SR20 loves to rev and thus where we are the most interested in gaining HP. Differences in tires (traction) would be virtually nil. The speeds for this tested are easily obtained on ordinary highways without scaring the other drivers. This should also help others in identifying if their car is in the proper shape of tuning by having a handy "yardstick" to gage their car. Slipping clutches would also be easily identified.

I have a BONE stock 95 t. It will make a good beginning point to compare your times to.

Post your interest and/or your times.

Originally posted by 95Gee20Tee
3rd gear 50 to 70 mph times

6.28 sec
6.24 sec
6.36 sec

Less than 100 ft above sea level
43 degrees F
dry concrete, flat smooth and straight
traveling @ 50mph - start time as I instantly go WOT - end time as the speedometer crosses 70mph
93.5 G20
stick
no leather
no sunroof
not touring
no mods
cargo = me + 1/2 tank of gas + bowling ball and shoes, drill, socket set

Good idea, but it's difficult to judge if a road is dead flat and this can make more difference than most variables. Average of 2 runs on the same road in opposite directions would be better. It will also help eliminate windspeed errors. By the way, I've calibrated my speedo and 70mph on the clock is really 68mph, but knowing Nissan most speedos will read the same so the test is still valid for comparison purposes.

Doubt that I'll be able to do the test for a while round here (Kent, U.K.) the roads are too busy and roadworks/cones everywhere.

Originally posted by SteveB
road is dead flat
How about a floating bridge? I think the water is pretty flat.

You're right on that point, two way averaging would be better. I'll leave it up to the individuals to try several different roads and average those readings if they are close enough in time.

Thanks trbobrk for the first readings. It is good to see less than .1 second consistancy.

I timed mine but the times were all over the place

1: 6.64
2: 7.14
3: 5.95

They were not back to back, so that could be some of the variation.

Temp: 60-70
Alt: Sea level
Wind: little
MOds: None, 100% stock 95t
Fuel: full tank

How are you testing this, cruising at 50 then punch it, or start from say a light, and time it on the onramp as you go from 50-70 under constant acceleration? from the looks of it you guys are doing it from a constant 50mph, then mash it to 70? I think more up a gear would be better... 20mph isn't that much in 3rd gear? what about rpm based tests rather than mph (or kph). Maybe 2k-7k in second, or something like that? something that can be legally done on say a highway on ramp, 7k in 3rd would be close to 90mph, the highest speed limit near me is 55, unless i drive a little ways, then i could hit 75mph interstate, but there are no onramps around there. What do you think?

I can tell you my 1/4 mile time right now... (look at the sig.)

I can tell you what seems to be the most consistant for me; Double clutch down to 3rd gear, slowly SLOW DOWN (about 1 mph per every few seconds) to 50mph, right when 50 is hit go WOT (wide-open throttle) and press start on your stopwatch, as you reach 70, push stop as the needle crosses.

The 50-70 works well for me where I live. Let me know what you come up with that works well for you. I just wanted something WE ALL could do easily to compare performance. Maybe answer questions like: Should I do the header or CAI first? Does a Greddy MX make any difference? Testing by various members with various modifications on the same test can help answer these questions.

I just tested mine again today and got some good consistant numbers.
6.19
6.27
6.28
6.25

Conditions:
60 deg F, half tank, windy but from side

Mods:
NONE

Someone with some mods get use some numbers. CAI, header, 91 cam would be nice to see the gains.

Originally posted by 95Gee20Tee
I just tested mine again today and got some good consistant numbers.

And they are very simmular to mine. I test mine agian now that my clutch is fixed, it was slipping a little, don't know how much that effected it.

Originally posted by 95Gee20Tee
Conditions:
60 deg F, half tank, windy but from side

Mods:
NONE

Someone with some mods get use some numbers. CAI, header, 91 cam would be nice to see the gains.


Let me see... I have similar mods to those, however my "testing" conditions would be close to 3000ft and about 100 degrees. I guess I could try this at night, say like right now (11:00) when it's only 80 outside :-\ But I still don't feel this is a very good test for overall power output, the rpm range just isn't large enough.

I'm sure there is are some math computations that can be done to correct for the altitude and temperature differences. I'll get with C&D, R&T or SCC and see if they have some rough corrections.

You're right on the RPM range issue but I figure the broader we go the more difficult it will be for the Average G-man to get numbers. 2nd gear from say 30 mph to 60mph might be a good test OR 3000 - 6000 rpm. Let's get what numbers we can on this and then come up with a second test to see if the numbers (% difference) for the various mods compare well between test. I would expect the numbers at LOWER rpm to be similar between stock and modified but as the rpms build the differences will become more and more apparent.

I just got some numbers also.
3.75
3.82
3.78

This was done on my SR20DET-powered G20. It has intake, 3" exhaust, lightened flywheel, JWT clutch, underdrive pullies. Done at 4,000 feet, half-tank of gas, 85 degrees, 1 passanger, at stock boost (7psi)

I did another run at 10psi and got these numbers
3.02
3.08
3.06

Same setup - half tank gas, 1 passenger, 4,000 feet, 85 degrees

Originally posted by 95Gee20Tee
I'm sure there is are some math computations that can be done to correct for the altitude and temperature differences. I'll get with C&D, R&T or SCC and see if they have some rough corrections.

You're right on the RPM range issue but I figure the broader we go the more difficult it will be for the Average G-man to get numbers. 2nd gear from say 30 mph to 60mph might be a good test OR 3000 - 6000 rpm. Let's get what numbers we can on this and then come up with a second test to see if the numbers (% difference) for the various mods compare well between test. I would expect the numbers at LOWER rpm to be similar between stock and modified but as the rpms build the differences will become more and more apparent.

There are elevation calculators online too.

Well you figure that a good mod might take a couple tenths off a 1/4 mile time... when you only take a 20mph range that couple tenths turns into even less of a difference. The best would be compare 1/4 mile times (since this will be taken at a track, rather than on the street) that'll take everything into affect (including the launch too :*( ) You'll also have more than just the time, you'll have a mph too.

Originally posted by g20ps
I just got some numbers also.
3.75
3.82
3.78

This was done on my SR20DET-powered G20. It has intake, 3" exhaust, lightened flywheel, JWT clutch, underdrive pullies. Done at 4,000 feet, half-tank of gas, 85 degrees, 1 passanger, at stock boost (7psi)

I did another run at 10psi and got these numbers
3.02
3.08
3.06

Same setup - half tank gas, 1 passenger, 4,000 feet, 85 degrees SMOKIN' !!!

I made a few more runs over the past couple months with my only mod being a Borla muffler. Numbers remained the same though at higher temperatures.
6.28
6.25
6.30
sea level, 90 deg F, 3/4 tank.
My numbers seem to have stabilized by approaching 50 from below VERY slowly, then go WOT right as it crosses 50. This method probably shaves off a 1/10 sec but it seems more consistant then when DROPPING to 50. I guess the DROP rate can make for large variations in time.
Anyone out there have just a couple mods? We have times for NO MODS and full BLOWN (literally) mods.

Hi All, I did my first real performance mod and got some numbers to compare.
If you read the previous post, my stock 95 G20t would do about 6.3 seconds average on the third gear 50-70 test.
I did the 17 degree timing advance about a week ago and immediately noticed an improvement. I finally tested the improvement yesterday and today. Here are the results:
6.06, 6.20, 5.95 yesterday (75 deg, 1/2 tank)
5.78, 5.95, 5.88 today (65 deg, full tank)

A BIG measureable improvement, 0.2 to 0.3 second improvement.
Next week comes the HotShot CAI. I'll keep you posted.

Originally posted by JustinP10 :
something that can be legally done on say a highway on ramp, 7k in 3rd would be close to 90mph,

7K in 3rd close to 90mph? If this is true my car is way off because in 3rd at 7K i'm doing around 110

Maybe someone can clarify, oh yeah and sorry to get on a tangent

Hey,

I'm not sure if your figures are accurate.
At 7000RPM in THIRD gear the p-10 G's should be going about 90-95 MPH or so. I believe at the 7500 RPM redline, we are around close to 100MPH. Justin P10 is just about right on the money....

Are you sure you are in third?
Was your gearing changed?

If you are indeed correct with your car doing 110mph at 7000RPM in Third, than you have some seriously high gearing...that would totally effect your acceleration (slower).

Let me know, I'm curious.

Maybe there's something fucked up with my speedometer that's telling me i'm going faster than i am, but now that i think about it i've passed those electronic police speed signs that tell you how fast you're going and I've been UNDER what the sign said. I.E. i was going 25 and the sign said like 28. But I'm positive, and with people in the car at 7500 rpm i've been doing (from what I can see) 114mph in 3rd gear. I'll check it out tonight ;)

BTW i don't think any of my gearing has been changed, i bought the car used with 101K on the clock, so stuff may have been done to it, but it wasn't modified in any other way, except for the three different brands of tires it was sporting :surprised And i have the stock size wheels/tires on it so i don't know.

Back on subject...
Anyone else have any 50-70 times? Someone with a header, exhaust, cam and CAI would fill in the current data nicely.

cooler day = lower numbers

5.75
5.89
5.91

Should be REAL cool on Monday (~ 50), try again then.

Cliffgump- do you have an auto? that would explain the different 3rd gear mph range, I thought I remember my old auto to have much longer gears, but I'm still not sure if they were even that long. On a standard 5-spd P10 you should hit roughtly 35mph in first, 65 in second, 100 in third, 135 in fourth, and fifth i think is somewhere around 175-180, if you have the power. Those are just close approximations, I don't know the exact mph off the top of my head.



Originally posted by 95Gee20Tee
Back on subject...
Anyone else have any 50-70 times? Someone with a header, exhaust, cam and CAI would fill in the current data nicely.

Well, I have similar mods to those, but not quite the same....
FWIW, I still think the number given from this test isn't a good result of the overall power band of a car. See my earlier posts in this thread for more details on why.

Justin, no auto here, 5spd manual. I checked my speedometer on one of the police "check your speed" speed gun signs (we have a fixed one on a major road near me) My speedo was consistent with the sign's reading. BTW my 1st gear does something like 40, 2nd is a shade under 80, 3rd is like 114, and i haven't topped it out in 4th yet. Any ideas on why my tranny is different?

Originally posted by Cliffgump
Justin, no auto here, 5spd manual. I checked my speedometer on one of the police "check your speed" speed gun signs (we have a fixed one on a major road near me) My speedo was consistent with the sign's reading. BTW my 1st gear does something like 40, 2nd is a shade under 80, 3rd is like 114, and i haven't topped it out in 4th yet. Any ideas on why my tranny is different?


That's bizzar. We're talking MPH, right? Also is the car a US car? Your numbers seem a bit off. I'm close to Justin's figures at 35 for first; 62 for second; 100 for third.

How many RPM's are you at 80 mph in 5th gear. You should be at 3500...???

Also, perform the 50-70mph WOT in third gear..as stated in the original posts. Let us know your times....

Thanks.

I'll definitely check my rpms in fifth gear tomorrow. But i was checking my 50-70mph speed, and it was a little more than 7 seconds. It's totally just by me counting in my head, no stopwatch or anything. This is a US car to my knowledge.

I was also just thinking here, that when I first bought the car, I could drop 2nd in it at 60 mph and still have plenty of rpms till the next gear. I thought that was pretty cool. Just a little sidenote here.

Originally posted by Cliffgump
I'll definitely check my rpms in fifth gear tomorrow. But i was checking my 50-70mph speed, and it was a little more than 7 seconds. It's totally just by me counting in my head, no stopwatch or anything. This is a US car to my knowledge.


Please check that out today and let us know...perhaps the tranny ratio was changed for gas mileage.

Originally posted by trbobrk

How about a floating bridge? I think the water is pretty flat.


na. it's slightly curved

:P

Sorry i must have been on crack when i looked at my speedometer, but my mph is still higher than it 'should' be. First gear hits 40, 2nd hits 70, 3rd is like 110, and i'm not sure about 4th. When i was at 80 in 5th my rpms were at 3250-3300.

Originally posted by Cliffgump
Sorry i must have been on crack when i looked at my speedometer, but my mph is still higher than it 'should' be. First gear hits 40, 2nd hits 70, 3rd is like 110, and i'm not sure about 4th. When i was at 80 in 5th my rpms were at 3250-3300.


Your gearing is not stock U.S. Not sure what the Canada cars are, but the U.S. P-10 w/5speed should run about 3000 at 70 mph and 3500 at 80mph.

Something is up with your car buddy. different tranny or different internals. (???? , hmm a mystery).

Hmmm very interesting, does anyone know what the first letter of the VIN should be for a US car? I'll check my VIN when i get home.

Originally posted by Cliffgump
Hmmm very interesting, does anyone know what the first letter of the VIN should be for a US car? I'll check my VIN when i get home.


I think all north american P10's would start the same? I'll have to check in the fsm when i get home, but don't they all start with like JNCK.... or something like that, first letter designating Japan, second Nissan, etc.... ? :nervous:

BTW, those other numbers sound closer, but still a hair too high (more noticeable in higher gears - like 3rd). On the 5th gear rpm, maybe your tach is off, what does your car indicate at redline, 7500rpms, or is it off?

Originally posted by Cliffgump
Hmmm very interesting, does anyone know what the first letter of the VIN should be for a US car? I'll check my VIN when i get home.

VINs for a car made in the US generally begin with either "1" or "A."

To get really detailed: http://www.angelfire.com/ca/TORONTO/VINcode.html

But all Infintis were made in Japan; so expectedly; they should all begin with "J".

My tach is just about dead on. I've hit the rev limiter and it was at least a quarter of the way into the red on the tach. Plus my idle sits right at 700-800rpms, right where it should be.

Originally posted by 95Gee20Tee
cooler day = lower numbers

5.75
5.89
5.91

Should be REAL cool on Monday (~ 50), try again then.


95G with only 68,000 miles
all stock except: 205/60/14 tires, custom intake.
87 octane, 1/3 tank
approx temp: 50 degrees; average humidity; clear skies.

50-70mph in third gear....

5.25 - westbound
5.89 - westbound BUT - actually got to 72mph, not 70.
5.15 - eastbound

I'm curious to see with 19 degree timing, 93 octane, and Remus exhaust. The timing I can do now, the Remus has been ordered but waiting for them to ship it from Europe. ;)

Anyone else have times???


;)

95g ATL, do you have 17deg timing? I set mine to 17 and I can still run 87 octane - no detonation. I might try the 19 deg and 89 or 93 octane, also.
I wonder if it is you custom intake giving the lower numbers? I will try installing my Hotshot CAI in the next few days and see how my numbers are.

BTW: Anyone ask what size TIRES Cliffgump has? A taller tire can make that kind of difference. Also, it is virtually impossible for a tachometer to be off. It is a electronic pulse counting device and generally works accurately and fails. There is no real possibility (99.99%) it can read OFF by a % value because of the design of the electronics. I say this from 20 years experience in electronics.

Originally posted by 95Gee20Tee
95g ATL, do you have 17deg timing? I set mine to 17 and I can still run 87 octane - no detonation. I might try the 19 deg and 89 or 93 octane, also.
I wonder if it is you custom intake giving the lower numbers? I will try installing my Hotshot CAI in the next few days and see how my numbers are.

BTW: Anyone ask what size TIRES Cliffgump has? A taller tire can make that kind of difference. Also, it is virtually impossible for a tachometer to be off. It is a electronic pulse counting device and generally works accurately and fails. There is no real possibility (99.99%) it can read OFF by a % value because of the design of the electronics. I say this from 20 years experience in electronics.


I have stock timing because I never changed it. I'm the original owner so it was never altered. Funny thing, only in the cooler months I can use 87 octane. I usually require 89 or higher, otherwise I will get a very slight ping. This has been evident since new. I wonder if my compression is higher, or the factory timing is not stock. ---or the factory goofed and put in a VE engine vs. the DE....highly doubtful, but I wish!

My intake is a pop type charger, the test was done on a cool day, and the engine was barely warmed up. FYI: When I installed the intake system I definitely noticed more throttle response and more power under WOT.

Also, my car is the base model - no power seats, leather, or moonroof. This probably saves quite a few pounds. To answer your question, I'm not exactly certain why my numbers are lower than most others. I did the "test" run a few times so I would have some consistancy -which it was consistant. Perhaps it is because my car has low miles, meticulously maintained and weighs a bit less than the "loaded" models----OR--- I have a "FREAK" factory car. I have never conducted any dyno, 1/8 mile, 1/4 mile, or 0-60 times so I wouldn't know if that is true.

My numbers oughta be pretty close to bubbagumps too. The jim wolf 7950 kinda helped though:smoke:....or is it 7700? shit I can't remember.

Bryan

195/60/15

Out in the countryside, in the middle of the night, probably around 56 degrees or lower with an elevation of abotu 300 ft above sea level, I did 50-70 on 3rd gear in 4.1, 4.3,4.1,4.4. I took out my passenger seat, with 1/4 tank of gas, and 50 shot nitrous single fogger. I don't know if I did it right. I think I did.

Originally posted by Cliffgump
195/60/15


I believe stock wheels for all P10's have 14" rims. P11's have 15" or 16" rims stock.

I noticed you have a 92 P10.

wheel/tire size won't even matter in finding if the gear ratios are differnet unless you are being clocked from the outside of the car. whether you run mudders or rubber bands, 1st gear should go to 39, second to 68, and third to 100 ON THE SPEEDOMETER @ redline (given its 7400). just my .02

Bryan

Originally posted by azg20t
wheel/tire size won't even matter in finding if the gear ratios are differnet unless you are being clocked from the outside of the car. whether you run mudders or rubber bands, 1st gear should go to 39, second to 68, and third to 100 ON THE SPEEDOMETER @ redline (given its 7400). just my .02

Bryan


Right, the tach won't change, only your actual speed.

Originally posted by gqsway
Out in the countryside, in the middle of the night, probably around 56 degrees or lower with an elevation of abotu 300 ft above sea level, I did 50-70 on 3rd gear in 4.1, 4.3,4.1,4.4. I took out my passenger seat, with 1/4 tank of gas, and 50 shot nitrous single fogger. I don't know if I did it right. I think I did.


Those are some good times!

Originally posted by 95g ATL



I have stock timing because I never changed it. I'm the original owner so it was never altered. Funny thing, only in the cooler months I can use 87 octane. I usually require 89 or higher, otherwise I will get a very slight ping. This has been evident since new. I wonder if my compression is higher, or the factory timing is not stock. ---or the factory goofed and put in a VE engine vs. the DE....highly doubtful, but I wish!

My intake is a pop type charger, the test was done on a cool day, and the engine was barely warmed up. FYI: When I installed the intake system I definitely noticed more throttle response and more power under WOT.

Also, my car is the base model - no power seats, leather, or moonroof. This probably saves quite a few pounds. To answer your question, I'm not exactly certain why my numbers are lower than most others. I did the "test" run a few times so I would have some consistancy -which it was consistant. Perhaps it is because my car has low miles, meticulously maintained and weighs a bit less than the "loaded" models----OR--- I have a "FREAK" factory car. I have never conducted any dyno, 1/8 mile, 1/4 mile, or 0-60 times so I wouldn't know if that is true.

I'm just guessing but if you are getting detonation on hotter days, it could be a little carbon build up on your pistons. This build up can have a compression raising effect, like domed pistons, and result in slightly better times. Like I said, I have 17 deg timing AND 87 octane and NO evidence of detonation.
The IDEAL spark occurs JUST before the combustion is going to detonate on its own, hence your better numbers. That's how these cars with the advanced electronics and premium gas get better HP, they advance the timing as far as it can go at all times.

Run a few tanks of Chevron (with techron) and injector cleaner and see if your times change.