VE or DET

[G20Rida4Life]

Since I Need A New Motor, I Want A Power Upgrade As Well... I Am In College So Price Is A Big Deciding Factor In What I Get... VE Or DET Is What Im Trying To Decide.... I Have A 92 Auto P10 And I'm Trying To Gather All Te Info On What Parts I Would Need...

For A VE Swap I Would Need:

1) VE Motor
2) JWT ECU
3) Exhaust

Right? I Would Still Use My USDM ECU And Harness As PhatG20 Did In His Swap.

For A BB DET Swap I Would Need:

1) BB DET Motor
2) FMIC System
3) Greddy Profec B
4) JWT ECU
5) BOV- Optional
6) Exhaust

I Would Also Have To Use My USDM ECU And Wiring Harness For This Right?

Overall I Think The VE Swap Would Be The Cheapest Way To Get My G Running Again With More Power. Am I Right? Help! And Feel Free To Let Me Know If I Left Anything Out Of My Lists...

[CarloSR]

What are your power goals??

You don't need a FMIC, Profec B or a BOV with the BB engine, and you could use the BB ECU.

In the VE you don't need to change your exhaust, neither in the DET, I run two months with the stock primera exhaust.

Carlos.

[G20Rida4Life]

i just want 220hp... haha "just" but will settle for 200...
EHhh between 200-220hp i know i will have to mod the VE for that but i can do that later..

[G20Rida4Life]

One Call To My Boy Domiken And He Answers All my Questions... Thanks Bro! Im Gonna Be Boosting Soon~! ! !...

[2G's kid]

with intake and exhaust the ve will probably hit 200+ hp since it already has 190. If you turbo it you can get 300+ hp so the VE has a lot more potential. But its all up to you.

The ve also doesn't drop in torque at lower rpm. It stays above 125 lbs troughout the whole rpm range so well the det requires about 3k rpm for the turbo to go off.

[G20Rida4Life]

Im college so im on as small a budget as possible, the ve will cost a lot more to buy, install, and mod... and i heard that they do not respond to turbos very well...

[Domiken]

Hes automatic guys, a VE will not be power cost effective even with mods. A turbo auto would respond a lot better.

$1800 for Avenir motor (newer) with ow miles

$600 for install

$400 misclellaneous

$200 gauges and pod (boost, EGT)

$3000

Not bad IMO for 7psi with a top mount intercooler

[TheBlazinAzn]

i was under the imprssion that VE engines are cheaper than DET.

1900$ from JGY for a sr20ve
1000$ for install i believe
2900$

turbo in the long run would give you a lot more power, but it wont be cheap.

i am planning to go VE by the summer.

[poppy_morenito]

Originally posted by Domiken
Hes automatic guys, a VE will not be power cost effective even with mods. A turbo auto would respond a lot better.

$1800 for Avenir motor (newer) with ow miles

$600 for install

$400 misclellaneous

$200 gauges and pod (boost, EGT)

$3000

Not bad IMO for 7psi with a top mount intercooler

Kev,

Since he is automatic, I thought the VE would be better. No one drive around the city at 3000 rpm. In an automatic it would always be lagging as the the tranny finds the shift points.

If I am wrong please explain .. I have been debating with the VE for a while Dre told me it would not be cost effective for me because of chnaging all the other little thing .... but DE seems like I would lost my stop light racing ability ...

[Domiken]

Originally posted by poppy_morenito


Kev,

Since he is automatic, I thought the VE would be better. No one drive around the city at 3000 rpm. In an automatic it would always be lagging as the the tranny finds the shift points.

If I am wrong please explain .. I have been debating with the VE for a while Dre told me it would not be cost effective for me because of chnaging all the other little thing .... but DE seems like I would lost my stop light racing ability ...

The VE would not be better if auto, think about it, its only 50 more hp at higher RPM ranges. Serban (local dude from sr20forums with a n NX) just got his swap, his car revs up to 8400RPM!!! His VVL engages at 4400RPM, anything below that and the car (with auto) will not be peppy.

I had an automatic turbo de, and because of the high compression on our motors (not the 8:5:1 like the DET) the car had NO LAG with a T25! No lag at all, you felt the increase of torque when getting off the line at partial throttle of everyday driving (The SAFC would read 12% throttle). Turbo cars feel faster when they are not in ful throttle because the wastegate is not opening up letting the air out, its just the turbo spinning.

Because you guys are auto, the car is ALWAYS on boost when it shifts, it only blows off when you let off the gas. I have a huge turbo compared to a T25, and it hits full boost at 3800RPM or so, my T25 that was fully ported hit full boost at 2000RPM's (which is nothing).

[poppy_morenito]

So then I should just get small turbo for my car. I just want a little more push for moving in and out of traffice .. Plus it looks cool.

But What was it that you did wrong that blew your other one up ? Not to bring up bad memories:-\

I don't want to mess my car up for the sake of the turbo or of course I could just let Dre do it all like usual ...;)

If I got a that bump of HP I would never think of changing cars and I am just 1500 away from paying it off ... ( thank you Francis, Ivan, Jeane and Charlies ... Hurricane overtime :cheeky: )

[Domiken]

Originally posted by poppy_morenito
So then I should just get small turbo for my car. I just want a little more push for moving in and out of traffice .. Plus it looks cool.

But What was it that you did wrong that blew your other one up ? Not to bring up bad memories:-\

I don't want to mess my car up for the sake of the turbo or of course I could just let Dre do it all like usual ...;)

If I got a that bump of HP I would never think of changing cars and I am just 1500 away from paying it off ... ( thank you Francis, Ivan, Jeane and Charlies ... Hurricane overtime :cheeky: )

Yes you should, and you would most likely be smoking any new 260hp cars at low boost on a T25. My friends CL Type-S with mods as many of you have read made 200-207WHP no more than that...Pathetic. Auto + Boost is really fun too.

The reason why I blew my car up was because I was being careless with it, I did the swap myself with no previous turbo knowledge, I got boost happy, and didnt finish the job. The car wasnt tuned, the car had no bigger injectors as I didnt put them in (you run lean and blow up) and I raced over 120MPH+ for a good 5 minutes going at it on the highway which melted a piston in the block. If Dre does it youll have no issues, theres been guys there that Dre has boosted that have been daily drivers for 3+ years and are still running strong. You have a 99' which is better as all you would need is a JWT ECU which is plug and play.

Oh and congrats on almost paying off the car, thats awesome bro!

[G2002]

Remember when you get a DET allow money to change rod bearings and the water pump. It'll save your ass later.

[G20Rida4Life]

can i use the water pump off me DE? or would it be not a good idea because i ran my car way too hot?

[poppy_morenito]

Originally posted by Domiken


Yes you should, and you would most likely be smoking any new 260hp cars at low boost on a T25. My friends CL Type-S with mods as many of you have read made 200-207WHP no more than that...Pathetic. Auto + Boost is really fun too.

The reason why I blew my car up was because I was being careless with it, I did the swap myself with no previous turbo knowledge, I got boost happy, and didnt finish the job. The car wasnt tuned, the car had no bigger injectors as I didnt put them in (you run lean and blow up) and I raced over 120MPH+ for a good 5 minutes going at it on the highway which melted a piston in the block. If Dre does it youll have no issues, theres been guys there that Dre has boosted that have been daily drivers for 3+ years and are still running strong. You have a 99' which is better as all you would need is a JWT ECU which is plug and play.

Oh and congrats on almost paying off the car, thats awesome bro!

Ok I am pumped .. I am going to work OT dring the Holidays to make the $$$ for this ... thanks the car feel faster now that it is not super hot here at night and more so becuase it is almost paid for !!! ;)

I love the look of Carlos' car with the turbo .... plus when I powder coat ( spray the rims ) and we finally hook up my lights I will be show and go .....http://www.photohost.org/gallery/data/500/342p111-med.jpg


thanks again for the picture abdulmo ....

[G20Rida4Life]

I'm crunk too man, i can't wait to be boosting... i have 3-4 months before i can get my DET...:-\

[Domiken]

Originally posted by poppy_morenito


Ok I am pumped .. I am going to work OT dring the Holidays to make the $$$ for this ... thanks the car feel faster now that it is not super hot here at night and more so becuase it is almost paid for !!! ;)

I love the look of Carlos' car with the turbo .... plus when I powder coat ( spray the rims ) and we finally hook up my lights I will be show and go .....http://www.photohost.org/gallery/data/500/342p111-med.jpg


thanks again for the picture abdulmo ....

You mean its cool at night now. Damn I keep forgetting about your lights!!!!

Originally posted by G20Rida4Life
I'm crunk too man, i can't wait to be boosting... i have 3-4 months before i can get my DET...:-\

It takes time, Ive been buying parts for over a year now, my goal was 2 months ago....now im waiting on Dre

[G20Rida4Life]

Kev your G is gonna be sickning... It already looks sweet and clean as hell and now you're about to turbo it...:evil: i hope you invest in a good car alarm...:rolleyes:

[poppy_morenito]

Originally posted by Domiken


You mean its cool at night now. Damn I keep forgetting about your lights!!!!



It takes time, Ive been buying parts for over a year now, my goal was 2 months ago....now im waiting on Dre

What parts do i need if you don't mind running down a list for us ?

[Domiken]

Originally posted by G20Rida4Life
Kev your G is gonna be sickning... It already looks sweet and clean as hell and now you're about to turbo it...:evil: i hope you invest in a good car alarm...:rolleyes:

Thanks man, I will invest in a Clifford alarm ($350) like Trag's that everytime you turn on the car a little combination has to be entered on the switch or the car turns off in 30 seconds.

Originally posted by poppy_morenito


What parts do i need if you don't mind running down a list for us ?

Basic things:

Turbo Manifold
Turbo (wastegated or not then buy external wastegate)
Blow off valve
Injectors
Fuel management (SAFC or JWT ECU)
Downpipe
Exhaust
Gauges (not needed but recommended)
Fuel Pressure Regulator (Nismo)
Bigger Fuel Pump (Walbro)

[poppy_morenito]

Originally posted by Domiken


Thanks man, I will invest in a Clifford alarm ($350) like Trag's that everytime you turn on the car a little combination has to be entered on the switch or the car turns off in 30 seconds.



Basic things:

Turbo Manifold
Turbo (wastegated or not then buy external wastegate)
Blow off valve
Injectors
Fuel management (SAFC or JWT ECU)
Downpipe
Exhaust
Gauges (not needed but recommended)
Fuel Pressure Regulator (Nismo)
Bigger Fuel Pump (Walbro)

DO these need to be T25 specific ?

I saw a TB25 on se-r forums .. is it the same or compatible ?

I need total new exhaust ?

[Domiken]

Originally posted by poppy_morenito


DO these need to be T25 specific ?

I saw a TB25 on se-r forums .. is it the same or compatible ?

I need total new exhaust ?

Manifold you can use a Bluebird SR20DET manifold or if you later upgrade to a T28 then you might as well buy the GTiR manifold which holds both the T25 and T28. The Bluebird holds only the T25.

Dre has a T25 kit right now at his shop from an SR20DET, im going to be passing by there tonight to drop off my intercooler so it gets welded up, then at the end of the week mounted.

Yes, it would be essential to get a full exhaust and downpipe, that would run about $700 from VRS (Miami Muffler) ALL mandrel bent to our car. The "Dre special" exhaust is very tone down and not loud whatsoever, speak to him and hell give you the lowdown. For a good $3000 I can see a whole setup on your car making 210WHP which is about 250hp or so.

[poppy_morenito]

Originally posted by Domiken


Manifold you can use a Bluebird SR20DET manifold or if you later upgrade to a T28 then you might as well buy the GTiR manifold which holds both the T25 and T28. The Bluebird holds only the T25.

Dre has a T25 kit right now at his shop from an SR20DET, im going to be passing by there tonight to drop off my intercooler so it gets welded up, then at the end of the week mounted.

Yes, it would be essential to get a full exhaust and downpipe, that would run about $700 from VRS (Miami Muffler) ALL mandrel bent to our car. The "Dre special" exhaust is very tone down and not loud whatsoever, speak to him and hell give you the lowdown. For a good $3000 I can see a whole setup on your car making 210WHP which is about 250hp or so.

Ok cool let me know if he still has that kit there .... I may just go for it now .... Also man let's do my lights - everyone is blinding me and I want some payback

[Domiken]

Originally posted by poppy_morenito


Ok cool let me know if he still has that kit there .... I may just go for it now .... Also man let's do my lights - everyone is blinding me and I want some payback

Allright no problem, ill call the guy tonight to see what he has in stock. If he has it and you are down to meet up tonight then well do it for sure. It would be on the way to Dre's shop anyways, and on the way back I can head by your place. One thing that makes this job a TON easier is having those adapters. Jose with the midnight blue took mines but he bought me a pair and they arrived at his house 3 weeks ago, I can lend you those or whatever until your order yours and then you can give them to me. They are like $40.

Adapters make the light shine better and on one spot on the street and minimize the blinding effect of HIDs, theyl still blind, but not helicopters like the Hondas riding around Miami....lol

[poppy_morenito]

Kev, did you ever go to Dre's and if so does he havethe kits there still ?

I would rather have him do the whole thing then hunt down all the parts myself. Especially if there is a chance that there may be some problem like Koojo is having with the leak? PSI

[Koojo]

I would definatly go turbo. It's cheaper first of all, more power, and you can easily put a new turbo on for more power.

Originally posted by poppy_morenito

I would rather have him do the whole thing then hunt down all the parts myself. Especially if there is a chance that there may be some problem like Koojo is having with the leak? PSI

I don't really know whether the problem is a leak or not. So far it's that I can't boost past 5, but the culprit isn't found yet. I still recommend going turbo though. It's fun, and you learn a lot by problem solving :)

[Kory]

Is it possible to drop a turbo on a stock P11 with aftermarket exhaust and intake? What type of changes need to be made, and about how much would they run?
Thanks!

[Koojo]

Originally posted by Kory
Is it possible to drop a turbo on a stock P11 with aftermarket exhaust and intake? What type of changes need to be made, and about how much would they run?
Thanks!


Yes it's possible. Check out this thread:
http://www.g20.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23285 :)

[G20Rida4Life]

Originally posted by Kory
Is it possible to drop a turbo on a stock P11 with aftermarket exhaust and intake? What type of changes need to be made, and about how much would they run?
Thanks!

hope you gotta extingusher tp put out those flames!!!:flame: :cool:

the search button is your friend...:damncomp:

[hotshtsr20]

i see a lot of misconceptions here.

i will have a VE powered P10 and i already have a ridiculously overpowered SE-R.

even with my lag master turbo (stg V turbine, 0.82 housing, 60-1 compressor, made 462whp on the stock bottom end), i still make 160wtq @3000 rpm, about equal to what a VE makes PEAK. with my T25, i had 200wtq @ ~2500rpm, and 260 @ 4000 when running 13 psi. T25 equipped SR20s are by no means laggy, and make power at just about every concievable rpm (i think it was making 160wtq@2000 rpm). i highly doubt you will notice very much lag at all, and it will be by no means gutless below 3000 rpm (it will likely make a LOT more power than a stock DE below 3000rpm).

a VE is also NOT gutless below VVL engagement. if you look at dyno curves like this one: http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/april03/vvl/images/dyno.jpg

you will notice that it only differs 15 lb-ft between 2000rpm and its tq peak. it doesnt really get much flatter than that, the whole reason it has 2 sets of cam profiles.

[nis.k.a.]

That's some flat TQ.....so nice.

[Blue93G20]

Originally posted by 2G's kid
with intake and exhaust the ve will probably hit 200+ hp since it already has 190. If you turbo it you can get 300+ hp so the VE has a lot more potential. But its all up to you.

The ve also doesn't drop in torque at lower rpm. It stays above 125 lbs troughout the whole rpm range so well the det requires about 3k rpm for the turbo to go off.



HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, how about no. The VE will not make over 200 on just intake and exhaust. I doubt it will even make over 190. Just becuase its rated at 190 doesn't mean it puts that to the ground. See drivetrain loss for confirmation. Or talk to JustinP10, last i knew he had a CAI and Header back exhuast and was still below 200whp.

For the cost and the gains i believe the DET is a better choice for the money. Don't get me wrong i'd love to toy with a VE but $ for $ i gurentee i will make more power on a DET then a VE.

[G20Rida4Life]

Yea both are great motors, but the DET is cheaper power.... VE's are nice but i dont have the money to get that... theres a lot more to it than i thought it would be.... so thas why im going with the DET.....

[hotshtsr20]

how do you figure?

VE $1650 from andreas miko
Header: $100-600 (used or new, depending on how fancy you want to go)
GReddy MSS: $159
JWT ECU: $595
HS CAI for 94+ motor: $219
or EBay intake: $50

total: $2554-$3200.

DET: $1600 (guaranteed to have more miles)
Rod bearings: $70 (more miles and more stress on the oiling requires this)
Downpipe: $200-300
Intercooler kit: $free (if you're ghetto and use the stock top mount) or $160-800.
JWT ECU: $595
ACT clutch kit (VE can use a stock setup, DET will blow it away): $388

total: $2853-$3753.

installs on turbo engines are generally more expensive.

you will want an exhaust for either, 2.5-3" so add on another $200-500 depending on options, etc.

[Blue93G20]

DET $850 (after i sold all the junk i wasn't using $1200 originally)
Rod Bearings $40 OEM Nissan
DP $200
ECU $600
ACT $300
Intercooler $500

$2450....Thanks!:knockout:

[hotshtsr20]

Originally posted by Blue93G20
DET $850 (after i sold all the junk i wasn't using $1200 originally)
Rod Bearings $40 OEM Nissan
DP $200
ECU $600
ACT $300
Intercooler $500

$2450....Thanks!:knockout:

where's the piping to the intercooler? or was that free?

what did you sell from the DET for $350?

where did you find a DET for $1200?

[Blue93G20]

Originally posted by hotshtsr20


where's the piping to the intercooler? or was that free?

what did you sell from the DET for $350?

where did you find a DET for $1200?

Paid $300 for the intercooler, $150 for the piping.

Sold the TMIC for $170, Sold the DET ECU for $175, Sold the DET Wiring harness for $50.

SC Imports out of California, made them bend over backwards to sell me the motor. Its in awesome condition for a U12, no major problems to date.


Ohhh and i know i got a very good price on the motor compared to waht they usually sell for. I'm just saying it can be had for less. The VE however is so new i don't think your gonna find one for less then $1400 without shipping.

[G20Rida4Life]

Theres a lot more to a VE than you listed dude....
1) Wiring Is Expensive...
2) The VVL Engagemetn Timer Thingy Is Expensive

and some other stuff i cant remember at this sec... and the motor costs more than you said it does... also i am automatic so i wont need a new clutch, and i can use the BB or Avenir ECU and i can get that for less than 100...

[Koojo]

For DET, you can still use stock exhaust, but it's good to get an exhaust because it will yield more power. Since the VE makes more power, you'd want to add a new exhaust, for the same reasons you add it to turbo.

It's easy to find a DET for $1200 :)

[Blue93G20]

Originally posted by Koojo
For DET, you can still use stock exhaust, but it's good to get an exhaust because it will yield more power. Since the VE makes more power, you'd want to add a new exhaust, for the same reasons you add it to turbo.

It's easy to find a DET for $1200 :)


Yeah i should rephrase that. I found a decent deal on a good condition motor.

[hotshtsr20]

Originally posted by G20Rida4Life
Theres a lot more to a VE than you listed dude....
1) Wiring Is Expensive...
2) The VVL Engagemetn Timer Thingy Is Expensive

you use your stock wiring harness.

i included the GReddy MSS (Multi Switching System) that turns on the VVL in that list. i did forget relays though, so add $6 to that total.

dude.

[Blue93G20]

Originally posted by hotshtsr20

you use your stock wiring harness.

i included the GReddy MSS (Multi Switching System) that turns on the VVL in that list. i did forget relays though, so add $6 to that total.

dude.



LOL
:p

[G20Rida4Life]

oops... maybe i was wrong, but im still going turbo so it dont matter...;) :cool:

[hotshtsr20]

Originally posted by G20Rida4Life
oops... maybe i was wrong, but im still going turbo so it dont matter...;) :cool:
and im both, shoot. :D

[G20Rida4Life]

if i could afford it i would do the same... but college costs too much...

btw, which do you like better?

[hotshtsr20]

Originally posted by G20Rida4Life
if i could afford it i would do the same... but college costs too much...

btw, which do you like better?
in college too, SDSU Mechanical Engineering.

for daily driving, the VE is better, for all out power, turbo is better, but the tranny doesnt agree with me. if our trannies were worth something, the turbo would be my choice...

[TheBlazinAzn]

Originally posted by TheBlazinAzn
i was under the imprssion that VE engines are cheaper than DET.

1900$ from JGY for a sr20ve
1000$ for install i believe
2900$

turbo in the long run would give you a lot more power, but it wont be cheap.

i am planning to go VE by the summer.

change of plans. going to go turbo now.

[G20Rida4Life]

I Ended Up Buying A Avenir DET And My Car Is In The Shop Being Transofrmed Into A Boosted Beast As We Speek... :cool:

[G20Rida4Life]

Originally posted by TheBlazinAzn


change of plans. going to go turbo now.


Yea, Thas Right! You Better Boost... I Ended Up Spending Like 3900 Just On Parts... Total Project Cost Is Over $5k...:dead: