im tryin to figure out how i can get about 200+++++ hp out of my sr20de without turbo and nos????? :cool:

Hope that a rich uncle dies and leaves you all his money.

200hp out of an N/A motor is not going to be cheap or easy. Either get a turbo or a VVL engine. You'll save yourself a lot of money and headache.

Originally posted by G20max
im tryin to figure out how i can get about 200+++++ hp out of my sr20de without turbo and nos????? :cool:

About $6,000 (doing all disassembly/assembly, and the swap yourself)

http://home.earthlink.net/~geo3/beast-toc.htm

Originally posted by Cue-Ball
Hope that a rich uncle dies and leaves you all his money.

200hp out of an N/A motor is not going to be cheap or easy. Either get a turbo or a VVL engine. You'll save yourself a lot of money and headache.

It's not cheap, but it can most certainly be done. Several of us have done it. As for easy, it just depends upon your skill level and patience. Actually, it's more about patience and ability to read and follow instructions.

Bluebird Manifold
Bluebird T25 Turbo
Front Mount Intercooler
3" Exhaust
370cc Injectors
JWT ECU
Stock MAF
ACT Clutch
1st Gen Eclipse BOV

Viola! 200HP!

I believe Mike Kojima has done this with a classic SE-R. But he had to change everything. Pistions, cams, pullies, flywheel, polish and porting, balancing, intake, header, exhaust, ecu, and I think bigger fuel injectors. After all that he just got above 200hp. I think it was in the ballpark of 205hp. But with all the money that you'd have to spend on that, you'd be better off with a engine swap.

I skimmed through and didn't notice the "W/O Turbo or NOS" ! The only 2 people that I know of that have gone past 170 whp are Rob Cadle and Mike Kojima. Mike Kojima's car was built from the ground up. Rob Cadle's car was abone stock US Spec DE with JWT C series cams and custom programming!

The easliest way to get as close to 200 WHP as possible would be to get an SR20VE block mated to an SR16VE Head. This should get you close to 200 whp. This swap will be pretty costly and very labor intensive!

They just dynoed a stock SR20VE in Cali over the weekend in an NX2000. With an old stillen header, ghetto intake, JWT ECU (for the vvl stuff) and no exhaust it put down 176.6whp and around 147 ft.lbs of torque.
Like Louis said with a modded SR20VE (something with SR16 cams, better set of headers, lightened flywheel, etc...) 200whp could be easily obtained. I'd guess.

Originally posted by JustinP10
They just dynoed a stock SR20VE in Cali over the weekend in an NX2000. With an old stillen header, ghetto intake, JWT ECU (for the vvl stuff) and no exhaust it put down 176.6whp and around 147 ft.lbs of torque.
Like Louis said with a modded SR20VE (something with SR16 cams, better set of headers, lightened flywheel, etc...) 200whp could be easily obtained. I'd guess.
Mmmmmm, me likie! Just another option to add to the option list. :-\

How much are the SR20VE's going for now?

I will assume they are still more than the BB-DET???? Or has the availablility of the VE's grown in the US?

Originally posted by NismoPC
How much are the SR20VE's going for now?

I will assume they are still more than the BB-DET???? Or has the availablility of the VE's grown in the US? They are still more. I'm thinking if you have air testing and they are really tight assed about 'blow-dryer' looking things hanging off your motor this would be a sweet option.

Originally posted by NismoPC
How much are the SR20VE's going for now?


I believe $2400 which includes shipping. (from Andreas Miko)

I'll double check the price...

Originally posted by TurbochargedSER
The only 2 people that I know of that have gone past 170 whp are Rob Cadle and Mike Kojima.

Don't forget about our staff member "Geo" (George Roffe). His car is almost identical to Mike K's.


He posted the link above to his site. You can see what is involved.

Originally posted by TurbochargedSER
The only 2 people that I know of that have gone past 170 whp are Rob Cadle and Mike Kojima. Mike Kojima's car was built from the ground up. Rob Cadle's car was abone stock US Spec DE with JWT C series cams and custom programming!

Actually, a few of us have built clones of Mike's engine now. Mine of course bit the dust due to steel shot in the head. :angry: Mike Pahls and a number of others have built them. Those of us who have dyno'd our cars have come a few hp short of Mike's. I've got some ideas why that is. Also, Jack Laverty (sp?) in CT (not on the SE-R list or forum or this forum) has a NA SE-R with lots of JUN stuff and I'm 99% certain he has dyno'd over 170.

As for Rob's former engine, it was a JDM engine. I don't know what he hit with the C3 programming, but I was there when he hit 169 at the wheels with stock maps (but raised rev limit) with the C2/C3 cams and the cam timing adjusted (although I think JWT has changed the cam timing to the settings he used). Also, the internals were bone stock JDM, but it had all the bolt-ons.

Just go for a nice Blue Bird T25 setup and save yourself some time, headaches, and money. I dont see why you would want to try and get that much HP out of a N/A motor when it would be so much more benifical to just turbo...

Originally posted by 2002G20Racer
Just go for a nice Blue Bird T25 setup and save yourself some time, headaches, and money. I dont see why you would want to try and get that much HP out of a N/A motor when it would be so much more benifical to just turbo...

There is something special about high output normally aspirated engines. The throttle response is so immediate. You don't get quite the kick in the back, but that's because the power curve is more linear.

Also, since a decent BB DET install runs about $4-5k, the NA engine isn't a whole lot more and you end up with an engine that is totally rebuilt. I could also build an engine that would be about 95% of what I built before for a lot less money and probably as cheap as or cheaper than a good DET install.

Originally posted by Geo
Also, since a decent BB DET install runs about $4-5k, the NA engine isn't a whole lot more and you end up with an engine that is totally rebuilt. I could also build an engine that would be about 95% of what I built before for a lot less money and probably as cheap as or cheaper than a good DET install.
Yeah but the new SR20VE options are looking pretty sweet now. I think that would be the way to go for serious N/A power. The dyno chart I saw 174hp/143tq at the wheels! That's with a shitty header open exhaust. Pretty good numbers. It goes on my option list. ;)

Originally posted by G-Forces

Yeah but the new SR20VE options are looking pretty sweet now. I think that would be the way to go for serious N/A power. The dyno chart I saw 174hp/143tq at the wheels! That's with a shitty header open exhaust. Pretty good numbers. It goes on my option list. ;)

You know, that's a really good point.

Despite the VE being initially more expensive, I'll bet it's cheaper over all than either swap. You don't have an intercooler or piping to worry about. You don't have to worry about getting an engine with a blown turbo or missing various turbo bits.

Once HS gets their VE header done, it should be a killer at a really good price.

Originally posted by Geo
Despite the VE being initially more expensive, I'll bet it's cheaper over all than either swap. You don't have an intercooler or piping to worry about. You don't have to worry about getting an engine with a blown turbo or missing various turbo bits.

Right! Never thought of that either. From lurking on the VE forum in sr20deforums.com it looks like you can get away with your stock ECU! Just swap in the stock DE 259cc injectors, use your stock MAF, wire up some rpm switches for the cam switch over solenoids and you're good to go.

I could see some 200+hp N/A cars soon. Makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. :D=)

somehow I don't buy the thought of "swapping" engine, though the VE certainly has potential. but the troublesome to swap the engine? might as well turbo the DE.

Originally posted by G-loads
somehow I don't buy the thought of "swapping" engine, though the VE certainly has potential. but the troublesome to swap the engine? might as well turbo the DE.
If you want big power sure. The VE swap might just be the cheapest easyist way to get 200-220 crank hp. I was suprised at how little you need to do this swap. Stock injectors, stock MAF, stock ECU, no turbo piping, no FMIC. Reuse CAI. You can even reuse current headers but they hurt power a bit. Which is fine because HS is making a VE specific header. Want a bit more power? There is testing on using SR16VE cams to get a bit more power.

Only problems is 200-220whp might be about the limit of this motor option, without going turbo.

Originally posted by G-Forces
Right! Never thought of that either. From lurking on the VE forum in sr20deforums.com it looks like you can get away with your stock ECU! Just swap in the stock DE 259cc injectors, use your stock MAF, wire up some rpm switches for the cam switch over solenoids and you're good to go.

Uh, that's really scary. The 259cc injectors should be dangerously near maxed out if not maxed out. Either condition is *not* a good thing.

Who came up with this idea. If it was Andreas, I would let him work it through first. I still think it's scary. I don't think those injectors will support the hp.

Originally posted by Geo


Uh, that's really scary. The 259cc injectors should be dangerously near maxed out if not maxed out. Either condition is *not* a good thing.

Who came up with this idea. If it was Andreas, I would let him work it through first. I still think it's scary. I don't think those injectors will support the hp.
I think they are close to being on the lean side. Some people stick with the VE injectors and it's a little on the rich side. Some put in the DE injectors and go a bit on the lean side. Apparently the VE is more detonation resistant than the DE.

Personally I'd get a JWT ECU tuned for the VE or bigger injectors, but the point is you don't have to. I agree you run the risk of detonation but it really hasn't been tested out yet. There's still a lot of debate on the SR20DEforums.com about it. I'm sure someone will slag a perfectly good motor with this method. It won't be me however. ;)

the stock 259ccs wont supplly enough fuel for a 200hp N/A car. found out yesterday enohands p10 maxed out his 259cc injectors and his car made 158 hp previusly dynoed running lean. so he installed his 370's and his car runs much better
i helped him program them on his nistune and did a little street tuneing on the car before he installs the turbo
we were suposed to change the maf to but he forgot to get a adapter

shit was surching and relised how old this was

Hey, better late than never! ;) lol Might be one of the biggest time differences between posts! 9 years, 2 months & 10 days!! But just glad to see you're still on the ball! ;)

lol, and the guy that first posted this never responded back at all!

the stock 259ccs wont supplly enough fuel for a 200hp N/A car. found out yesterday enohands p10 maxed out his 259cc injectors and his car made 158 hp previusly dynoed running lean. so he installed his 370's and his car runs much better
i helped him program them on his nistune and did a little street tuneing on the car before he installs the turbo
we were suposed to change the maf to but he forgot to get a adapter

shit was surching and relised how old this was

what was the fuel pressure at? Certainly it wasn't at 4bar if maxing out with only 158hp. Turn that bitch up:smile:

rob he is running the stock fuel regulator. his car made 158whp and i found it made it deadly lean. no need to turn the fuel pres up now the 370ccs take care of his fuel needs nicely

i really like how the de runs on the 370,s if i had it my way Id recomend them to any one wanting bolt ons and a tune .
the car loves them but it might be becuas the 370s were cleaned and flowed and the stokers had 280k worth of crap in them