Had the opportunity to drive an AT G20 yesterday and man, is it hard to swallow after driving MT!!! Acceleration on that car is like an old man walking!!!!!!!! And the revving music from the engine, I couldn't hear it at all!!!!! So glad that I am driving MT, no offense atomic-FF-G! :)

sadly it's true... the auto tranny kills any power capabilities the SR20 has (or could have). lol even if I drag race my friend's civic... off the line he can have me any time but from a rollin start at 60+ mph *when the auto is in it's last gearing anyways* his engine just can't keep up with an SR20DE. Still, it's easy to tell the P10 chassis wasn't supposed to ever have an auto tranny mated to it's engine... but I shouldn't be drag racing my car anyways... good handling lets me TURN...

I haven't had the opportunity to drive a new P11 stick shift but I did drive 2 different P10 5-speeds (used of course) and was extremely disappointed... I hated how long the throw was and how much effort had to be used with your left foot on the pedal and the amount of play in the clutch.... I had a 90 Celica that was a far superior and fun-to-drive clutch.. so I opted for the P10 automatic... I cannot speak for the P11... perhaps they improved it?

It is true that AT doesn't perform as good as a manual. I have 95 G20t with at. AT is the reason why I have started modifying my car. I believe that in Japan Nissan has sold P11 primera with CVT trans. It is as efficient as manual. It is same as Audi's CVT trans on a new A4. The problem is that it is doubtful to take the abuse of 220 hp + engine. Hopfully Nissan plans to sell V6 and V8 CVT trans equipped cars here in America.

Well, after owning an auto, and now a 5-spd. I can say that the 5-spd is definitly quicker off the line, however once you're going, i'd have to say they are pretty close to the same speed. The auto weighs a little more (about 80lbs), but other than that, the difference should pretty much just be how strong the motor is (maybe a couple hp more for the 5-spd due to transmission efficiency?) Once you are going though (like from a roll) i'd bet they are pretty comparable.

Man I love my auto... I just relax. :smoke:

Oh yea MT sucks!!!!!!

Well, the red light acceleration on an AT is surely not comparable to the MT. I could argue that even during cruise, the AT is somewhat slower in acceleration response, just a slight bit slower. The only way I see the AT is comparable to the MT is to drive like an MT. In that I mean, accelerate on D1 then shift to D2 then shift to D.

It's maybe just me but I like the sporty feels the MT give. You feel so much in control of the engine and more intimate with it. But then again, others like it a "I-don't-have-to-do-anything" in the AT so it depends on which thought you steer to.

Originally posted by G-loads
The only way I see the AT is comparable to the MT is to drive like an MT. In that I mean, accelerate on D1 then shift to D2 then shift to D.

I don't know why everyone assumes this, but if you put your fott down, while in drive it should do the exact same thing, but faster shifts. There is no way to really effectivly torque brake the auto tranny, unless you have it built by someone like level 10. Also, the car should go all the way to redline if your foot is all the way down, i know my 94 did. I'd usually leave it on power (the tranny switch) so it'd shift higher under normal driving too.

No offense taken. It is slower off the line than a MT and does struggle at times, I admit that - but I love my G, even if it is an AT. :). I'm not into racing, but making the car look good - so as far as speed goes, it doesn't bother me at all. Just like Justin said, the AT can do well after it accelerates and has gained all it's speed :). But then again, with the G being heavy, my heavy ass box in the back :) and heavy rims, it's hard pushing my baby - lol.

After I stoped street racing and accepted the fact that my auto G20 was slow I just stoped caring about speed. The G20 can handle daily driving with ease and it looks fast so who gives a flyin f#@%. If you want real speed do what I did open a savings account and start saving for another car. I plan on getting a nice Audi S4 or BMW 3 series in about two years.

...and when I'm stuck in bumper-to-bumper traffic never getting above 30mph for more than 1/4 mile, I LOVE my automatic and absolutely HATE MT!!!!

Originally posted by Chris
...and when I'm stuck in bumper-to-bumper traffic never getting above 30mph for more than 1/4 mile, I LOVE my automatic and absolutely HATE MT!!!!

Yeah, i definitly have to agree with you on that one. if i get stuck in heavy traffic, I wish I an auto tranny again. Although for me, the times i want a 5-spd outweigh those of wanting an auto (only in heavy traffic).

fortunately for me.. when I feel the urge to drive a stick, I have access to one ... and it happens to be a Viper.. (GRIN) ..NO, it isn't mine.. but I get the privledge of being allowed to drive it once in a while!!!

Originally posted by JustinP10


I don't know why everyone assumes this, but if you put your fott down, while in drive it should do the exact same thing, but faster shifts. There is no way to really effectivly torque brake the auto tranny, unless you have it built by someone like level 10. Also, the car should go all the way to redline if your foot is all the way down, i know my 94 did. I'd usually leave it on power (the tranny switch) so it'd shift higher under normal driving too.

Justin, I did exactly that - floor the baby! Problem is, once you floor it and red line it, AT tranny kicks in and shift to 3rd gear!! And there is a lag in the transition. This is what I am not too fond about, a lag in transition of power.

The point here folks is not about street racing and "oh-I-have-a-manual-and-you-don't" attitude, but it's about comparing the same engine, same car of different tranny, that produces noticeable differences in performance. And clearly different people have different preferences!

It is helpful however, to have a car with decent acceleration for the odd situation when you need the extra power for a lane change, etc.

In Miami having an auto is needed. I have a 5 speed back in NJ/ Philly and it was no big deal. But here in the traffice stuck behind a truck full chickens on the highway and all the bad drivers from other countries who never had to obey street signs before. It's one less thing to worry about ....

yeah, AT is good if you live in the Urban
but for suburd driving, MT is mandatory :)


Next question, can you DE+T with an AT? Never thought of that before, but I guess it should work fine?

Originally posted by 2002G20Racer
After I stoped street racing and accepted the fact that my auto G20 was slow I just stoped caring about speed. If you want real speed do what I did open a savings account and start saving for another car.

I feel the same way. If I had a manual tranny, I would probably do some engine mods. Since I don't, I gave up on my G unforntunately and made a pact to myself just to make it look good for the time being (rims, tint, drop, system). I will be saving up for a manual g35 when it comes out.

Originally posted by Mista McCoilover


I feel the same way. If I had a manual tranny, I would probably do some engine mods. Since I don't, I gave up on my G unforntunately and made a pact to myself just to make it look good for the time being (rims, tint, drop, system). I will be saving up for a manual g35 when it comes out.

Im also thinking about buying a manual G35 coupe. Its going to be faster, lighter, and better looking than the G35 thats out right now. Too bad its prob still going to cost around 33k for a semi loaded one...

So i was thinking if you could just get a higher stall torque converter for our auto trans...Im sure it would give some more power, but i'm guessing it would burn up the trans parts pretty fast. So would a whole rebuild from level 10 be in the need here?

Also...I think Antony Lawrence did have a turbo auto G20. In theory...the auto should be faster than the manual with the turbo because the auto should keep the turbo spooled up with always having a high RPM.

I thought about turbo charging my auto P11 a while back and its just not worth it. The trannie would cost aprx $3,000 to be rebuilt by level 10 plus labor. Your also going to need the turbo setup and everything that goes along with that. In the end I estimated it to be way more than its worth to any sane person.

If you really want to turbo charge your auto I recomend two things. 1) Trade in your car, get a manual equiped G20 and turbo charge that. 2) JWT should come out with their turbo kit for the G20 within the year and it should be auto friendly. But dont expect more than 200hp out of it without trannie problems.

Wouldnt it be awsome if someone was rich enough to add a T25 setup to an automatic P11. Cant wait to see it one day. :)

Originally posted by 2002G20Racer
Wouldnt it be awsome if someone was rich enough to add a T25 setup to an automatic P11. Cant wait to see it one day. :)
I don't think a mild 6psi turbo upgrade would be too hard on an auto tranny. If you get a tranny cooler you should be fine up to 200hp (180ish whp).

IMO if that's the max, and most reliable, hp output, I would save the trouble and suite her up instead. go with the basic mods and turn it into a nice, decent and respectable ride.

Originally posted by 2002G20Racer


Im also thinking about buying a manual G35 coupe. Its going to be faster, lighter, and better looking than the G35 thats out right now. Too bad its prob still going to cost around 33k for a semi loaded one...

Yeah, I wouldn't mind having a manual sedan either but it seems that either would be a great purchase. I'm only 21 and I'm not in my projected career just yet so I ain't makin the big bucks I want so I'll have to put probably at least 10 gees down to get if financed with a reasonable car payment.

I also probably have to tell them to take off the wheels and tell them to strip the interior just to get the price down. Maybe even take off the Infiniti badges and replace with Honda ones.

If I'm not mistaken, the new G35s only come in automatic. The upcoming G35 will be the first two door Infiniti since...well...since a long time ago. It'll come stick and has tons of crossover parts with the new Z. If you think about it, the G35 coupe is more of an upscale 350ZX than anything else, although the chassis is still supposed to have been based on the Skyline (not GT-R)

Originally posted by FF Drifter
If I'm not mistaken, the new G35s only come in automatic. The upcoming G35 will be the first two door Infiniti since...well...since a long time ago. It'll come stick and has tons of crossover parts with the new Z. If you think about it, the G35 coupe is more of an upscale 350ZX than anything else, although the chassis is still supposed to have been based on the Skyline (not GT-R)

Correct on the G35 coming in 6-speed this fall.

The G35 coupe is exactly the skyline chassis.

The G35 coupe will have 275+hp mated to a 6 speed trannie or a 5 speed automatic (like the one in the std G35). The front grill is a little bit more rounded and the headlights are swept back a little bit more compared to the std G35. The G35 coupe will also have 17 inch wheels, tail lights with circle bulb patterns, dual exhaust outlets, bucket seats and a collapsible rear seat. Options include a Brembo package and 18 inch wheels with high performance tires. Don’t forget that you will be able to get Nismo parts at your local dealership as well.

I have AT transmission, but I also have the abilty to eat (yeah right like i want greasy food on my dash) and Drink and Smoke a pipe without having to um......Shift, thats huge for me + I never drove stick and I would love to see what I would do to a Used 94 MT tranny :confused:

Originally posted by Icudie
I have AT transmission, but I also have the abilty to eat (yeah right like i want greasy food on my dash) and Drink and Smoke a pipe without having to um......Shift, thats huge for me + I never drove stick and I would love to see what I would do to a Used 94 MT tranny :confused:

Once you're driving standard, it'll be difficult to come back to AT.

I go back and forth between auto and stick all the time.. been driving stick since I was 16... and love it BUT hate the b to b traffic more and auto is simply more relaxing and less taxing in heavy traffic... shifting also tends to get me in more trouble with the police so automatic keeps my record clean (lol)

Of all of these discussions, I am surprised not to see anyone questioned about Triptronics. I know that the G20 do not have triptronics but, hey....it would be nice would it not? For the ocassion traffic jam, and the naughty mood :)

Which leads me to my next question. Has anyone explore the possibility of converting the AT/MT to the Triptronics. Anyone know if something like this is available out in the market? Not that I would ever convert my MT but just wondering......

just like it is too expensive to try to convert an auto to MT in a G20... just sell the car and buy what you want rather than try to mess with all that stuff!!!

Why would you even bother to change a G20 to tiptronic. With the thousands of dollers it would cost why not just trade in your car for a G35 or an Audi???

Originally posted by Chris
just like it is too expensive to try to convert an auto to MT in a G20... just sell the car and buy what you want rather than try to mess with all that stuff!!!

Welllllllll its not that easy. I wanna convert my car...and the reason why is I have almost taken apart every inch of MY car...I know what ive fixed, whats what...where, what i did...many many many hours of work went into my car...soo its just not that easy to part with it for a manual and not know what kinda car you're getting and you'll have to start from square one.

Besides...i love my color.

:p

okay no offense, but mt is better given the poor automatic that the p10's have. in thoery at will work better, which is why the new formula one cars are developing automatic transmissions for thier cars-it just shifts faster. but untill they offer a better automatic, i am sticking with manual. one thing that's good for racing also is engne breaking, and try that with an automatic transmission.

Originally posted by P10 WRC
okay no offense, but mt is better given the poor automatic that the p10's have. ***** one thing that's good for racing also is engne breaking, and try that with an automatic transmission.


Hmmm let me think ,,,,,ok NO ...lol engine breaking in automtic = broke engine

AGREED AT DOES SUCK

Well you can do engine braking on AT by turning off the O/D button which switches the car into 3rd gear. It doesn't harm the engine by switching back and forth.

I advise anyone who has a auto NOT to shift manually or downshift, I have a blown up tranny out in the garage from my 00 G20 because of that shit and I'm only pussing 164hp, So now I have to locate a tranny and send it to level ten before the DC meet. Like posted before the level ten runs 3 grand which includes a stall converter, a performance valve body, extra heavy duty clutches and band, and a shift kit. I took a ride in a sentra with one and its unbelievable how quick it was. If you take two matched cars with the hp, the level ten will smoke the 5speed.

Originally posted by G-loads
Had the opportunity to drive an AT G20 yesterday and man, is it hard to swallow after driving MT!!! Acceleration on that car is like an old man walking!!!!!!!! And the revving music from the engine, I couldn't hear it at all!!!!! So glad that I am driving MT, no offense atomic-FF-G! :)

Yeah, I agree. The AT's power on the G20 is equivalent to that of a slug's power :). But when your in an Auto G35, you don't feel like a slug :D

Wow the amount of monkey poop being slung around here is amazing! I'll just stay out of this. :p:monkey:

I've had this discussion before, and I ask how many G20 auto's here have headers, intake,JWT ecu and S3 cams. I've beat 5- speeds off the line, AUDI A4's ACURA INTEGRA's. People with auto tranny's put your money where your month is and invest in power bolt on's like I just mentioned and feel the difference. I've tried but just have not been succesfull in driving a 5-speed anything. In my experience with other comparible n/a 4 cylinder MT transmissions, I've found that if you could launch faster, I'd still walked your ass down and to most peoples amazement. Don't let these MT owners steal your shine. pink slips anyone?:cheeky:

Originally posted by paradyme
I've had this discussion before, and I ask how many G20 auto's here have headers, intake,JWT ecu and S3 cams. I've beat 5- speeds off the line, AUDI A4's ACURA INTEGRA's. People with auto tranny's put your money where your month is and invest in power bolt on's like I just mentioned and feel the difference. I've tried but just have not been succesfull in driving a 5-speed anything. In my experience with other comparible n/a 4 cylinder MT transmissions, I've found that if you could launch faster, I'd still walked your ass down and to most peoples amazement. Don't let these MT owners steal your shine. pink slips anyone?:cheeky:

Haha, in "G-force" terminology... "w3rd!"

Hey, we are united and in the same boat paradyme. I hereby declare us "THE OFFICIAL G20.net defender's of Automatic Vehicles!" I never let a "stick" owner intimidate me either because quite frankly, getting that tiiiiiinnnnnnnnnyyy bit more juice out of the MT is not as easy as one might imagine. If the driver cannot effectively use his box-o-gears (which in most instances is THE CASE) we are always at an advantage. If he does, he gains what a mere .1-.2 second over us?

The only problem I see with our form of transmission is that the setup is not built to handle the EXTRA power unlike the MT's which can. That's why I say, give us a level10 tranny upgrade just to let our trannies be able to handle as much power as you, and we will show you how a torque converter can spank on a clutch! :cheeky:

What is a level 10 tranny upgrade? sorry for asking

LEVEL10 are performance transmission specialist who cater to the improved performance of auto transmissions. Their located in NJ and are well known and respected throughout the performance auto industry. Their svc is pricey, but you get what you pay for. I have met a guy out in richmond who had a LEVEL10 SER for sale, some time ago he was asking like $1500 if remember correctly. He said difference was night and day performance wise and had no performance disadvantages when compared to M/T trans. It sold on one of the forums. Now I figure if your going to invest in a gas guzzling turbo that by the way in all M/T cars need performance flywheels and ranging an estimated total cost of $3,000 to 4,000 for a turbo set up. you could easily invest in a LEVEL10 overhauled performance tranny.

www.levelten.com

Originally posted by paradyme
and had no performance disadvantages when compared to M/T trans.
*shakes his head* Gearing is still gearing for starters so a 4 speed auto is at a disadvantage to a 5 speed manual JUST because of that. Not to mention, did anyone read the SCC article about the NX200 with a F-Max turbo'd VET? It had and automatic by level 10 and dyno'd 240hp at the wheels. Torque converters EAT POWER. And I quote...


On the dyno, the car pumped out an impressive 240 hp to the wheels on unleaded pump gas, through the catalytic converter at 15 psi of boost. A guess is that this is about 300 crank hp. We figure that the automatic slush box eats at least 50 more hp than a manual transmission under the same conditions. We have seen turbo Supras loose over 100 hp to the wheels after being converted to automatics, so this is a reasonable assumption. Other F-Max equipped cars pump out about 260-wheel hp under similar boost levels with manual transmissions so this is another indication that the hp estimate is probably accurate.
Take it with a grain of salt but time after time you'll see automatic cars with the same mods put down less on the dyno. Period!

Let me just say one more thing. Level 10 is a very good company and will make your automatic a lot better. But it will not be in the same league with a manual gear box.

ALSO an auto tranny that can handle a lot of power and/or auto tranny with a high stall convertor can be dangerous when you get up to high power levels, like 350 - 400 or more. youre going to be spinning tires all the time.

a friend of mine with a 400 horsepower big block mated to an auto says he just cannot, absolutely cannot take it out in the rain or even just cold weather.

this probably wont be such a problem with a turbo that has little torque at low rpm, but something to think about nonetheless.

there is not a chance my bel-air will be getting anything but a great 5spd and great clutch. it is important to have good control over 500 horsies.

woohoo :o

I guess this thread will never die...

...but then again, I now own a stick (my New Beetle) so once again I got tired of Auto and went back to a stick shift car.. LOL

..back and forth, back and forth....


..such is life!


...each system has it's merits...


but right now I'm having fun shifting! :)


...come summer, I won't mind my automatic though, with the top down of course... (Grin)

Originally posted by G-Forces
*shakes his head* Gearing is still gearing for starters so a 4 speed auto is at a disadvantage to a 5 speed manual JUST because of that.

I do not think that this is true...

[As a former Sentra SE owner I hang out over at www.b15sentra.net all the time. Just about everyone over there has a manual unlike here where just about everyone seems to have an automatic.]

jploser29 on b15 was tired of getting beat down by the other turbo Sentras in his neck of the woods so he got a levelten system - which includes a 5 speed automatic that can handle 600 hp. Total cost was $4000 though :-\ damn rich kids with their turbos and trany upgrades...

Guys,

Don't get us wrong. We are not dissing AT owners. The fact is, the MT can squeeze out that extra hp that the AT cannot simply because of the slush box. Whether you have mods, level 10 what not, still won't prove to me that it can put out the equivalent number as those MTs. There is a reason behind it and I believe G-Force said it well.

Having said all that, with new technology incorporated into engine design nowadays, that the AT can be as "hp-producer" as those MT. The difference in timing is very minimal, an exemplification to this is the Altima. AT puts out 6.8 seconds and MT put out 6.3 seconds.

It's the preference of wanting to be controlled versus controlling the engine.

Originally posted by Chris
I guess this thread will never die...

...but then again, I now own a stick (my New Beetle) so once again I got tired of Auto and went back to a stick shift car.. LOL

..back and forth, back and forth....


..such is life!


...each system has it's merits...


but right now I'm having fun shifting! :)


...come summer, I won't mind my automatic though, with the top down of course... (Grin)

Yeah, the SC430 definately sounds fun even with the automatic transmission.