Need Help: Wife's PT Cruiser threw a very nasty code.

[Kasstastrophy]

Well, my wife owns a 2003 Chrysler PT Cruiser Touring Edition. (non turbo)

a few days ago, the check engine light came on. I contributed this to the recent fact that I was driving it in a very strong snow storm, and when I stopped to get gas, I left the car running to keep the wipers and heater going.

after leaving the station, about 3-4 miles down the road, the CEL came on. I thought to myself this would because cause of the decrease in the vaccum in the fuel line, and I was pretty much expecting this. Well, a day later, the car seemed to clear the light, and it didnt come one when started.

halfway into town, the CEL came on again, so I went to the local friendly autozone to have the code pulled and cleared. this is what I was given.

TROUBLESHOOTING P0340; OEM BRAND:OBII
the PCM has determined that a malfunction exists in the electrical circuit for camshaft position sensor "A" (Bank 1 or single sensor) (bank 1 identifies the cylinders on the opposite bank)

TROUBLESHOOTING P0340 OEM BRAND: DOMESTIC
Definition:
Cam sensor condition
Explanation:
The Camshaft Position Sensor signal is monitored for errors
Probable Causes:
1-Cam Sensor defective
2-Check connector and wiring to sensor
3-Engine mechanical condition-timing belt/chain out of time



now the car has not been running rough... maybe seemed a little loss of power, but I have driven the car everyday until I got my G20, and I didn't notice any difference, so if the car has been running crappy, why just throw the code now.

Autozone said thre sensor is 42 bucks, timing belt is 31 bucks....

any mechanics here have any ideas on price or labor?

thanks.

[Borist72]

Ok...a couple tings...

Has the timing belt ever been replaced? How many miles?

Loss of power makes me think timing belt jumped a toof.

If the belt has not been changed then be warned: The 2.snore, oh, I mean 2.4 is an "interference motor" and if the belt stretched enough to jump a tooth then there could be more damage than one hopes. Since it still is running I doubt damage

According to a close friend, changing the timing belt on the 2.0/2.4 Chryslers are a pain. He found it VERY difficult to keep the cams/crank in place while tensioning the belt. I believe there is a tool but not positive.

As for labor, the entire end of the engine needs to come off to get the timing belt and while it is apart you might as well change the WP as the TB drives it. $300-400 would be my guess.

[p10det]

well you nned to find out what is wrong with the cr nd it seems you and uto zone are unclear of wha the problem really is.
but good luck and im not a mopar tech so i can give you dvice but it may not be on key to much

[Kasstastrophy]

Ok, well we have never changed the belt, but we just bought the car in August. The car currently has about 171,000 miles on it.

[p10det]

I think the T-belt is due every 60k on thems cars.

[Borist72]

60k is recommended, I have heard of people going longer but this increases the potential for problems.

My guess: Jumped a toof on the timing belt.

[Kasstastrophy]

well, after calling around, cheapest I have found so far to get a new timing belt and camshaft sensor installed is $456 plus tax.

chrysler wanted $1000.... greedy bastards

[Kasstastrophy]

Well, here is something new I have never heard of, can someone add or clarify this. I spoke with a guy at midas, and he tried to tell me that on chrysler engines, they have a habit of throwing a camshaft sensor code when it's the crankshaft sensor, and vice versa, so they have gotten into the habit of replacing both the cam and crank sensors. both of those, along with the timing belt is 826.94 including tax. I have never heard of this and none of my researching stated this. Hell, even the chrysler tech didnt say anything, neither did any of the other shops.

is it possible, or is midas just trying to rip off more money?

[Borist72]

Cannot confirm or deny that but sounds suspicious. Have you checked out any cruiser forums on the net? I posted your info on www.bionicdodge.com (I am a mod over there). I hope to have info tomorrow.

I just sent you a PM with a link to the thread if you want to watch the post yourself.

T

[2000ET1G20]

Well , i work for Chrysler ( yuck ) , and the T-belt you can prolly do yourself.

The cam position sensor is easy to replace, Chrysler warranty pays .3 to replace it.


The cam pulleys have timing marks that have to be lined up , if you line up the marks with a ruler , they should be at the exhaust cam, one mark at 9 o'clock, and the other mark at 3 o'clock, same with the intake sprocket one mark at 9 o'clock and the other at 3 o'clock. The sprockets have markings that say " UP" , so thats the way they need to be. Basically right side up.

The crank has a timing mark on the block ( a little arrow ) and a mark on the crank sprocket, just line thos 2 up and you're at TDC, lining both the cam sprockets up and it's all lined up and mechanically timed.


Just removed the pass. side motor mount(s), there's one outer and one inner. And jack up that side of the engine it's all pretty simple. I'll try and copy and paste the FSM section on here.

[2000ET1G20]

Here's the FSM instructions for removal....................



REMOVAL - TIMING BELT
Disconnect negative battery cable.
Remove upper and lower front timing belt covers (Front Timing Belt Covers). (Refer to 9 - ENGINE/VALVE TIMING/TIMING BELT COVER(S) - REMOVAL).
CAUTION: When aligning crankshaft and camshaft timing marks always rotate engine from crankshaft. Camshaft should not be rotated after timing belt is removed. Damage to valve components may occur. Always align timing marks before removing timing belt.

Before the removal of the timing belt, rotate crankshaft until the TDC mark on oil pump housing aligns with the TDC mark on crankshaft sprocket (trailing edge of sprocket tooth) (Crankshaft and Camshaft Timing).
NOTE: The crankshaft sprocket TDC mark is located on the trailing edge of the sprocket tooth. Failure to align trailing edge of sprocket tooth to TDC mark on oil pump housing will cause the camshaft timing marks to be misaligned.

Loosen timing belt tensioner lock bolt (Timing Belt Tensioner).
Insert a 6 mm Allen wrench into the hexagon opening located on the top plate of the belt tensioner pulley (Timing Belt Tensioner). Rotate the top plate CLOCKWISE until there is enough slack in timing belt to allow for removal.
Remove timing belt.
CAUTION: If timing belt was damaged due to incorrect tracking (alignment), the belt tensioner pulley and bracket must be replaced as an assembly (Refer to 9 - ENGINE/VALVE TIMING/TIMING BELT TENSIONER & PULLEY - REMOVAL).

[2000ET1G20]

Here's the info from the FSM to install..................



INSTALLATION - TIMING BELT
Set crankshaft sprocket to TDC by aligning the sprocket with the arrow on the oil pump housing.
Set camshafts timing marks so that the exhaust camshaft sprocket is a 1/2 notch below the intake camshaft sprocket (Camshaft Sprocket Alignment For Timing Belt Installation).
CAUTION: Ensure that the arrows on both camshaft sprockets are facing up.

Install timing belt. Starting at the crankshaft, go around the water pump sprocket, idler pulley, camshaft sprockets and then around the tensioner (Timing Belt Installation).
Move the exhaust camshaft sprocket counterclockwise (Timing Belt Installation) to align marks and take up belt slack.
Insert a 6 mm Allen wrench into the hexagon opening located on the top plate of the belt tensioner pulley. Rotate the top plate COUNTERCLOCKWISE . The tensioner pulley will move against the belt and the tensioner setting notch will eventually start to move clockwise. Watching the movement of the setting notch, continue rotating the top plate counterclockwise until the setting notch is aligned with the spring tang (Timing Belt Tension Adjustment). Using the allen wrench to prevent the top plate from moving, torque the tensioner lock bolt to 25 N·m (220 in. lbs.). Setting notch and spring tang should remain aligned after lock bolt is torqued.
Remove allen wrench and torque wrench.
NOTE: Repositioning the crankshaft to the TDC position must be done only during the CLOCKWISE rotation movement. If TDC is missed, rotate a further two revolutions until TDC is achieved. DO NOT rotate crankshaft counterclockwise as this will make verification of proper tensioner setting impossible.

Rotate the crankshaft CLOCKWISE two complete revolutions manually for seating of the belt, until the crankshaft is repositioned at the TDC position. Verify that the camshaft and crankshaft timing marks are in proper position (Crankshaft and Camshaft Timing).
Check if the spring tang is within the tolerance window (Timing Belt Tension Verification). If the spring tang is within the tolerance window, the installation process is complete and nothing further is required. If the spring tang is not within the tolerance window, repeat Steps 5 through 7.
Install upper and lower front timing belt covers (Front Timing Belt Covers). (Refer to 9 - ENGINE/VALVE TIMING/TIMING BELT COVER(S) - INSTALLATION).
Connect negative cable to battery.

[ENO]

i think midas is trying to get over on ya,,,,but thats me

[Kasstastrophy]

sweet, I will pass this on to my brother in law, he is the mechanic, I am just learning.

give him gas and beer money, I get get the parts for less than 75 bucks at autozone.

[2000ET1G20]

Dammit, how do i copy a page, it has a diagram on the t-belt and sprockets but it won't let me copy and paste!

[Kasstastrophy]

well, if you want to email my the picture, my email is kasstastrophy@yahoo.com

[2000ET1G20]

No, i mean i'm on Chrysler dealer connect ( the fsm ) , and they have a diagram but not sure how to save it on my PC or send it thru email.


I'll try and take a pic on my digital cam.

[Kasstastrophy]

are you at work right now? if your at home, you could try a program to do a screen capture.

you have given me alot, and I am sure we would be able to figure it out. I love the people on this forum, everyone is so helpful.

[2000ET1G20]

Ok i'll send you an email

[2000ET1G20]

are you at work right now? if your at home, you could try a program to do a screen capture.

you have given me alot, and I am sure we would be able to figure it out. I love the people on this forum, everyone is so helpful.

Yeah thats what i was trying to do , a screen capture ....I don't know how, not CPU literate.