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Discussion Starter #201



I have put 35k miles on her since the turbo project has been finished. It seems like it takes forever to get the miles racked up on her. My daily transit is less than 20 miles every day and I don't get to just cruze around very much anymore. It's pretty safe to say that the factory RE4F03B and roller rocker engine with the right stuff and tuned right should last for years of abuse @ 14psi maybe more we'll see :)

Rebuilt RE4F03B with shift kit @ 14psi now at 22,000 miles (16psi for the last 500 miles)
Rebuilt factory B15 00' roller rocker engine @ 14psi 9,050 miles (16psi for the last 500 miles)

Fastest 1/4 mile so far 13.4885 @ 106.74 (16psi)
 

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That picture took forever to load thought you pulled the tranny. When you do can you post pics and weak spots. I'm waiting to rebuild mine until I see yours. And your thoughts on what is needed where. Awesome thread man.
 

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Discussion Starter #203
I'm going to get it pulled and swap a fresh one in so I can check for wear as soon as I can. We just have had too many things going to play with cars the last couple of months. I'm pretty close to my ignitions limit so I may not be able to break this transmission due to limits of the stock ECU and ignition system. If I had a standalone ecu with COP or built the engine with 8.5cr det pistons and det cams I could go as high as 24psi on stock ecu and ignition. We are still going to play around with a few things and hopefully get 18-20 psi hopefully... If it can hit 20psi it will put down a tad over 300whp and that's not too bad for a completely stock RR/auto setup.
 

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Discussion Starter #204
Transmission @ 22,575 miles

The transmission started to shift really hard from 1st into 2nd. It feels like an old school shift kit that bangs into gear really hard. If I have any pedal in it at all it barks the tires. 2nd to 3rd and 3rd to 4th still works like it did... Guess I'll be changing the transmission ASAP now. The bad part is that I have so many things going I don't know when I'll have a day to pull and put the new one.. The next tranny will be completely rebuilt with all new seals,frictions,steels,brake band, and transgo kit and also will be measuring clearances so everything is within spec. I didn't do all of the seals in this current trans or measure anything I just threw in the frictions,steels,band, and shift kit. (was being lazy)

Good news is that I played with the boost control and got 19-20psi on a few pulls so the ignition is holding up with the green cam so far. I'm going to have to invest in some softer tires if I decide to keep it at that boost level :) Oh and it was already shifting hard before I started changing the boost up to 20psi.
 

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Was your driving constant like the YouTube videos and strip runs periodically? 22,000 miles on a throw together Trans is dope. Annual rebuilds is kind of a pain in the dick though. Can't wait to see what kind of mess you made man!
 

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Discussion Starter #206
There was a lot of driving like that :) It has been to the track probably 4 times making 3-6 passes each time. Even normal every day driving for me is pretty aggressive so it was tested pretty hard. Also being mostly city driving (stop and go 1st 2nd 1st 2nd) the friction material is probably gone and starting to go metal to metal... Just a guess but we have felt rough engagement on older A transmissions and it's usually trashed frictions and if driven long that way trashes the brake band and drum too.

If I can get a couple years on a rebuild at 250-300whp it's really not too bad. 1 day to rebuild one. 1 day to swap them. I always keep an extra in the garage since good cores only cost $100. Also the shift kit is a one time deal and just moves to the next trans :)
 

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What locking sealant do you use when putting the converter housing back on? [when I opened mine up, I didn't see any kind of gasket]
 

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Discussion Starter #208
I use Permatex ultra grey rtv for all aluminum case sealant. Transmission, engine oil pans and valve cover. You can also use blue loc-tite on the case bolts to make sure it stays together. Also a tip about rtv sealant: Always use a new tube when starting a big project. I used a tube that must have been in my cabinet from last season when I did both cars oil pans. It must have separated a bit and turned crispy after it dried. Leaked horribly and I had to do both jobs over again. Wasn't worth saving $7 on RTV
 

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Discussion Starter #209
Got the transmission out after work with a little help from my brother. Took just under 1.5 hrs to get it out. Pulled the pan and found very fuzzy magnets. Looks like 140k+ thousand mile magnets not 23k miles. We should have it torn down tomorrow to find out what we will do for round three. I'm guessing some machine work and extra clutches :)

 

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Discussion Starter #211
Never :) I just check the fluid level, smell, and color. I use walmart supertech. It's cheap and I don't feel bad about changing it every 23k miles haha

Anyway here's the scoop on what happened to the first rebuilt RE4F03B.

#1 - Brake band had over 1/4" of travel side to side. Should be 1/8".

#2 - High Clutch assembly was smoked so bad that you couldn't turn the discs. Two of the steels got so hot they warped into a dish shape but the frictions didn't go to metal yet. The high clutch drum is used in 3rd and 4th and wouldn't fully disengage. My brother caught this quite awhile ago when he was driving the car and saw the rpm's jump before fully engaging while in 3rd gear under boost. This only happened under full boost at peak torque. The high clutch drum had 3 frictions and 5 steels (two sets of double stacked). We decided to add an extra friction (33% more) and remove 2 steels this time around and freshen up everything. New frictions all around, all steels, and seals.

The rest of the clutch sets were in factory tolerance or in the low end of limit. I'll add the before and after measurements later.








That last one is from my mustang flywheel when it was putting about 560 ft/lbs down and the single disc clutch just couldn't do it anymore :) This is what is happening to the high clutch in the RE4F03B with only 3 frictions and 250whp.
 

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Discussion Starter #212
Been thinking since last night and the high clutch only got 23k miles @ 250whp and was slipping for quite some time. Adding 1 friction 33% increase would probably make it very reliable for 14psi... But I want 20PSI (300whp) and that extra disc won't be enough and it would probably only get another 20k or so before burning up. So I tore the High clutch drum apart tonight and started measuring again. Looks like I might sneak 2 more frictions in making a 66% increase from stock stacking. Honestly 3rd/4th should be good for about 24psi with 5 frictions. Probably going to have my brother machine the top retainer plate for the clearance when I get it figured out. There are 7 different top retainer plate thickness and 6 of them are still available from Nissan. This is how the factory gets exact tolerance with different clutch stacks.
 

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That's weird, the B trans is supposed to be an upgraded A and they took out 1 friction on the high clutch? Maybe it wasn't fully engaging ,tolerance out from start or a fluid restriction , check ball, seal leak. Either way more frictions is a good idea.
 

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Discussion Starter #214
No, it was running properly. The high clutch in the stock transmission with shift kit that was in the car previously looks identical to this one. It's just too much torque for 3 clutches. The "B" is an upgraded design that fixes the normal "A" problems like the seals that make the reverse drum frictions fail and then eats the brake drum up with it and also the valve body has been redesigned. I have opened a lot of "a" transmissions and they aren't worth messing around with even in N/A projects. The last "A" we rebuilt had a chewed up drum and I opened 2 others for a replacement and they were trashed also. Had to use a brake drum from a "B" to get it finished. I haven't ever run into those problems in any of the revised trannys. But if it only takes a little machining work and some extra clutches to put down 300whp reliably I think it's a pretty good transmission. I really thought I would have had to put the RE4F04B transmission in to put this kind of HP to the ground.
 

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Discussion Starter #215
We spent most of Saturday going through the whole transmission and got it finished up. Has all new frictions,steels,band, and seals in it now. I was really lucky that I had all of the parts in stock at work. We have no idea how the 5 frictions are going to work but hopefully it will take the 20psi we are going to throw at it. We used a retainer thickness of 5.35mm to get 1mm of total clearance. It's tighter than factory but still spins freely. We were looking at other things in the transmission that just amazes us how they can take the HP that it has been taking and wondering when we are going to find the breaking point of hard parts like the the planetary gears and input shaft.

High clutch
Was - frozen up from warped discs (should be 1.4 - 1.8mm)
New clearance with 5x friction 5x steels - 1.0mm

Overrun
Was 1.68mm
Now 1.45mm

Forward
Was 1.13mm
Now .80mm

Low/Rev
Was 1.68mm
Now 1.68mm

Reverse
Was .90mm
Now .90mm

Also the new brake band adjustment procedure for 1/8" of slack

Tighten band to 3ft/lbs and then back off 2 1/4 turns.
 

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Discussion Starter #216
We spent a little time after work Mon & Tues, It took about 4 hours total to get everything back together. Crossed our fingers and went for a spin... Shifts great! I'm going to let it break in for a few days before turning it back up to 20psi.

Car is @ 170,600 miles

Rebuilt RE4F03B (5 disc high clutch) with shift kit @ 16psi now at 0 miles
Rebuilt factory B15 00' roller rocker engine @ 14psi 9,650 miles

Fastest 1/4 mile so far 13.4885 @ 106.74 (16psi)
 

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OK so in my p10. I like the power and comfort control and want to use my TCM. The electric controls on the modified B Trans is about the same. Can I still swap the B , add the extra clutches in and keep my controllers?
 

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Discussion Starter #218
The quick answer is we don't know yet. This summer we are getting ready to use a modified "B" transmission in my brothers 99' that will use the factory "A" TCM to see how it works. But the P10 uses a different TCM than the 99' P11's use. We probably will never get to test a P10 since we don't have one.... at least not yet :)
 

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Discussion Starter #219 (Edited)
Well the new transmission has 1000 miles on it. We turned the boost back up to 20psi last weekend and accidentally had about 10 degrees more timing in it than we would normally have, It was loosing traction in third gear :) Tamed it down once we saw where the timing was at. Lucky we are running E85 fuel or we would be building another engine again. Something felt weird in third gear about 4000 rpm like it was dogging and the rpm would hang for a couple seconds but the speedo would keep rising during the pull?? Don't know if the torque converter is flexing or what so we will be playing around carefully until we either figure out what that was or break it... It's faster than the new Camaro SS that I was behind today... He wouldn't get out of my way on the highway and he was giving it all it had haha

Another thing is the high clutch rebuild was a great success so far because it will bark 3rd gear when I get on it.
 

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Discussion Starter #220 (Edited)
Well the transmission is holding up so far but we are pretty sure the torque converter can't take much over the 14psi that we have been testing it under. Around 4000-4400 RPM at full boost (16 to 20psi) it feels like the torque converter goes into lockup and the RPM's hang there while it gains about 15 mph. After that it climbs up as normal. Just guessing from previous dyno sheets that peak engine torque is hitting in that area and something in the TC is flexing and locking up the torque converter?? The options now are #1 stay at 14psi and be safe for years to come. #2 pay $500 bones for a built TC (which may or may not fix it) or #3 build the RE4F04B VET that's sitting in the garage and see how it reacts to 20psi... (the VET is already stock rated for around 250whp)

I have to say this is pretty much the end of testing the 03B transmission and it's capabilities unless there is a big enough group wanting to pitch in for more 03B research. It's going to get expensive to put much more than 250ish whp down. And if I am going to buy a $500 torque converter I would rather it be for a 04B tranny that is already stock rated for twice the HP. You gotta give the little 03B some credit for putting twice it's factory rated power down and not breaking one hard part over 40,000 miles of turbo abuse. It actually held up to 20psi with dangerously high timing for about 4 pulls and still didn't break anything but the tires loose in third :)

Final thoughts for building the 03B for 14psi
Full rebuild kit (steels/frictions/steels/brake band) $250
Transgo shift kit $91
High clutch 5 friction disc modification $100
Lot's of labor and time $beer
 
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