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"says here on your chart"
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to be honest with you, i think you might have to get your alignment done. when you lower a car the camber gets messed up. now while that is good for racing and corner traction, it kills tires. you will notice the inside of your tires wear very fast, maybe 10k miles depending on how much you lower the car. now if the springs did not lower your car than you have nothing to worry about. your infiniti dealership should be able to do it for you. i am only speaking with experience when i lowered my 97 eclipse. now you may not have to do it to the rear on a P11 since it is not indepentent suspension, but i would get the front checked out. of course i don't know for sure since i have a P10. just my 2 cents
 

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HybridAMP said:
Yeah, I talked to you some via e-mail about em and I should be sitting the same exact way here shortly.

This is mine currently on stock springs and shocks:


RESPECT THE SILVER. LOL
Tru tru!! Cars looking good!! You definitly need to drop it though!! =) Represent the silver!! LOL


HybridAMP said:
Yeah, here is what Eibach's website has listed as required for P11 G20s:

Product Front Rear Comments Part Number
1 - PRO-KIT 1.2 in 1.2 in 6336.140
2 - ALIGNMENT KIT Front +/- 1.75 degrees of adjustment. 5.81250K
Dude I just ordered the spring put them on and got the car aligned and balanced all at once, I was told I dont need the Alignment kit! My back tires do camber a little little bit, my front is str8.
 

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HybridAMP said:
I noticed on the Eibach site they sell some sort of alignment kit with the lowering springs for the P11 G20s. If I put the Eibach Lowering springs on my G20, do I have to have them re-alligned to new specs or something?

P10 WRC said:
to be honest with you, i think you might have to get your alignment done. when you lower a car the camber gets messed up. now while that is good for racing and corner traction, it kills tires. you will notice the inside of your tires wear very fast, maybe 10k miles depending on how much you lower the car.

HybridAMP said:
Yeah, here is what Eibach's website has listed as required for P11 G20s:

Product Front Rear Comments Part Number
1 - PRO-KIT 1.2 in 1.2 in 6336.140
2 - ALIGNMENT KIT Front +/- 1.75 degrees of adjustment. 5.81250K
Yikes.

OK, whatever kit they sell for the front of the P11 is pure monkey poo.

You need to get an alignment, not because of camber change, but because of toe change. Camber is not adjustable on the P10 or P11. Well rear camber can be changed on the P10, but that's another story. You can adjust the camber with a bushing kit from New Zealand. Otherwise, you're SOL.

Camber change is not the reason you wear out the inside of the front tires when lowering a car. When you lower the car, the wheels toe out and that is why you wear the inside edges of the tires prematurely. That can be easily fixed with an alignment.
 

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HybridAMP said:
Where did you get yours all done? My Infinit Dealer that I bought the car says they cant allign or ballance it because of the 17" Rims not having some sort of a lip and the place I got the tire can only ballance them because they dont have an allignment machine :(
I got mines done at Infiniti. My good friend is the service manager, so he hooked me up. I dont know about the rims thing because I have stock sport rims so they were able to align it. I dont know why they cant align yours? :confused:
 

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Re: Re: Have to change alignment for Eibach Springs?

Geo said:









Camber change is not the reason you wear out the inside of the front tires when lowering a car. When you lower the car, the wheels toe out and that is why you wear the inside edges of the tires prematurely. That can be easily fixed with an alignment.

okay i am going to have to disagree with you on that one. now it is a general rule that if your wheels are toe-out the insides of them will wear faster, and while the tires are toe-in the out side will wear. HOWEVER lowering a car with INDEPENDENT suspension will change the camber, not the toe. You are right in assesing that camober is not adjustable, it is not in most cars on the road today unless you get a kit for it. Now here is the trick, most shops will be able to adjust the TOE to compensate for the tire wear that is incurred with more negative camber. But then you loose the benefits of the negative camber in cornering. you need to get your wheels done by someone who knows what they are doing. So Geo, you probably got your alignment done and the guy told you that they changed the toe, which was good if you wanted to save your tires, while in fact the reason they did was to compensate for the negative camber.
here is a link to a site i found
http://www.ingallseng.com/performance/camberchange.htm
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
LOL
Sheesh, all these technical details and problems with just changing springs. Hrm, I guess I will just take it to a performance shop and hope it works out.


And the reason Infiniti said they couldnt do it is some BS about my aftermarket rims not having that "outer lip" where the balance weights are and that their machine spins/alligns the cars by clamping on to that lip. I guess it makes sense, but I am still suspicous that Infiniti is just being a bitch cuz I took off the stock 15" Rims/Tires.:mad:
 

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If any idiot stuck a balance on the lip of my rim I would personal rip their knackers off!!!! I couldnt thing of anything more ugly..... and apart from anything else it can seriously damage your rims if its not done properly (aparently your rims can weep if the covering on the outside if breached and the metal is exposed to oxygen, this in turn can make your tyres leak air if its on the lip of your rims)..... Take them to any decent Garage who will but the balances on the insde (behind the spokes) of your wheel. Thats where mine have been done!

Cheers
Kev
 

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If negative camber can be compensated by adjusting the toe, then wont that mess up the stability of the ride during high speed driving?
 

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"says here on your chart"
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well i had my eclipse up to 130 and it did not seem messed up. i hope you don't need to go faster than that. btw the service guy told me that they changed the toe, but who knows he might have been lying. i put a camber kit on the rears and used extra washers to totally fix the camber there, but i had to take it to the dealer for the front. the point i was trying to make was that tire wear is increased on the inside of your tires from the camber change, not the toe change when you lower your ride. the toe should not change.
 

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Re: Re: Re: Have to change alignment for Eibach Springs?

P10 WRC said:
okay i am going to have to disagree with you on that one.
You can disagree all you like, but that won't make you right. You're wrong.

P10 WRC said:
now it is a general rule that if your wheels are toe-out the insides of them will wear faster, and while the tires are toe-in the out side will wear.
Monkey thinking won't win you an argument.

P10 WRC said:
HOWEVER lowering a car with INDEPENDENT suspension will change the camber, not the toe.
Indeed it does change the toe. The tie-rods do not swing in the same arc as the control arms. As you lower the car, the control arms move a greater distance than the tie-rods. This causes the wheels to toe out. It's also what causes bumpsteer.

P10 WRC said:
You are right in assesing that camober is not adjustable
Thanks for letting me know I know how my car works.

P10 WRC said:
So Geo, you probably got your alignment done and the guy told you that they changed the toe, which was good if you wanted to save your tires, while in fact the reason they did was to compensate for the negative camber.
No. Changing the toe just corrects the toe. It doesn't do anything for camber.

I'm afraid you don't have your facts straight. That's OK, we can correct that.

http://www.se-r-list.org/archives/1998/1998-11/msg01062.html

Ken Nord is an automotive engineer and used to own Nu-Tech (SE-R folks will know who I'm talking about).

The fact is that almost any time you lower a car you end up with toe-out. That makes it critical to get an alignment after changing the ride height of your car.
 

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P10 WRC said:
the point i was trying to make was that tire wear is increased on the inside of your tires from the camber change, not the toe change when you lower your ride. the toe should not change.
You have it totally wrong. Totally.

Folks see the link in my last post to a post by Ken Nord to the SE-R Mailing List.
 

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I get insulted when somebody thinks they know more than GEO.
This man is true to da game and can't nobody fade his knowledge.
He is the einstein of the of the SR20DE community. Resistance is futile. If you decide to test this mans knowledge, you better be 100% sure of what your talkin bout.
 

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I will agree with Geo because I just did my suspension and had it aligned the next day. On a 1.5" drop the camber changed .5 degrees more negative in the front and the rears stayed exactly the same (p11 beam) toe out was .25" in front and that was from 0 toe when it was at stock height and of course the rear still stayed the same. On the p11 (or at least on mine but I have heard others say the same) I actualy had a .5 deg postive camber on the frnt psngr side and .7 deg postive on the drvr side at stock height so lowering the car actualy helped to get me to 0 deg on the psgr side and .2 deg postive on the drvr side.
 
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