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Discussion Starter #1
Just a question to ponder.... :eh:

Should a guy who forgoes college to pursue another necessary field (perhaps as an auto technician, electrician, or joining the military) spend a good portion of HIS earnings (through taxes) to subsidize public university students?

This happens everyday.

Those who choose "vocational" careers, most of whom grew up in middle & low-income families themselves, end up "paying the freight" for those who decide to go to college (tuition only pays for PART of the cost of education, the rest is from taxes paid by working people).

I have heard this argument lately, and have to agree that those who want a degree SHOULD PAY FOR IT THEMSELVES, or get private loans to repay later (when they land the high-paying job that they got eductated for ;) )

Where am I wrong?
 

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DonSwier said:
Just a question to ponder.... :eh:

Should a guy who forgoes college to pursue another necessary field (perhaps as an auto technician, electrician, or joining the military) spend a good portion of HIS earnings (through taxes) to subsidize public university students?

This happens everyday.

Those who choose "vocational" careers, most of whom grew up in middle & low-income families themselves, end up "paying the freight" for those who decide to go to college (tuition only pays for PART of the cost of education, the rest is from taxes paid by working people).

I have heard this argument lately, and have to agree that those who want a degree SHOULD PAY FOR IT THEMSELVES, or get private loans to repay later (when they land the high-paying job that they got eductated for ;) )

Where am I wrong?
Don, this is the closest you and I have come to agreeing on something ;)....but not completely....I agree if we all want something that we should earn/pay for it with our own money, but the whole point of college is to get a piece of paper that says you're "allowed" to make more money than the person who didn't go. But you do say that if you get a private loan and repay it later...."when they land the high-paying job that they got educated for"....... Don, my man, look at the times we're living in.....there's TOO much competition out there....this country is sending MOST of its high paying jobs to other countries for cheaper labor.....and what guarantee can you give a college grad today that he/she WILL get that high paying job that he/she just put himself/herself in $50,000+ debt for a piece of paper that MAY NOT get the job afterall? You tell me bro. Bottom line, this is the land of opportunity....or so I once remembered. Not everyone has a rich uncle who can hook up a loan. :2cents:
 

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DonSwier said:
Where am I wrong?
Should I pay for MediCare when I dont use it?

Should I pay for Social Security when it will most likely be bankrupt by the time I retire?

Should you pay for car insurance when you havent been in any accidents, or had any tickets?

What if you have no kids... should you pay taxes to the local school board?

Just because you dont use something doesnt mean you dont contribute to the larger system for the benefit of others. It's the way our society works. Taxes suck, but it's that or anarchy.



- Greg -
 

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taxes for public education, also pay for high schools, and elementary schools. the public education system in a whole was created to give everyone an opportunity. why stop after highschool?
 

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Because the public school system these days is worthless. NOT ONE course that I know of actually teaches our youth how to utilize our economic system. Oh sure, its great to know about socialism and communism, but then they say oh by the way, were capatilistic, like its something dirty. They teach you how to get a job and work for someone else.

You show me a course that the public school system teaches you how to be a multi millionaire in 10 years or less owning a business system, not a traditional job/business that your presence is required to run it, but you can walk away from and never work again and the money still rolls in, and I will shut up.
 

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MrFancypants said:
Should I pay for MediCare when I dont use it?

Should I pay for Social Security when it will most likely be bankrupt by the time I retire?

Should you pay for car insurance when you havent been in any accidents, or had any tickets?

What if you have no kids... should you pay taxes to the local school board?

Just because you dont use something doesnt mean you dont contribute to the larger system for the benefit of others. It's the way our society works. Taxes suck, but it's that or anarchy.



- Greg -
One day you may need all these benefits just like you may need one of those college students to help you out. That college student may be your doctor/lawyer/stock broker/accountant/etc. in the future, would you not want them to be the best that they could be? The only way that will happen is if that student gets through college, but if he/she has to worry about working 40 hours a week to pay for college, his/her studies could suffer.

Paying for college educations through taxes is a noble and fair cost to the American citizens and they should be recognized more for that sacrifice of a part of their paycheck. Everybody bitches and bitches about paying taxes but if nobody paid taxes, NOTHING WOULD GET DONE! I think people need to stop being so self-concerned and think a little bit more about the greater good.
 

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blairellis said:
Because the public school system these days is worthless. NOT ONE course that I know of actually teaches our youth how to utilize our economic system. Oh sure, its great to know about socialism and communism, but then they say oh by the way, were capatilistic, like its something dirty. They teach you how to get a job and work for someone else.

You show me a course that the public school system teaches you how to be a multi millionaire in 10 years or less owning a business system, not a traditional job/business that your presence is required to run it, but you can walk away from and never work again and the money still rolls in, and I will shut up.
Show me a college that advertises that they will make you into a multi-millionaire in less than 10 weeks. Most classes/seminars that promise that kind of money are simply trying to make money of the American populous. Only a certain type of courageously ambitious people can turn profits like that but it still takes a long time. Not every person in the world has what it takes to become a multi-mil. or billionaire.

College is there to educate on a broader level so that you can understand the world around you. Its how you use that education that can either land you that $10 mil. salary or the $30K salary.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
MrFancypants said:
Should I pay for MediCare when I dont use it?

Should I pay for Social Security when it will most likely be bankrupt by the time I retire?

Should you pay for car insurance when you havent been in any accidents, or had any tickets?

What if you have no kids... should you pay taxes to the local school board?

- Greg -
Greg, I understand your point on these, but post-secondary education (anything beyond the basic education EVERYONE needs) is a different matter.

1) Social Security: I'm supportive of allowing the choice of private accounts in the Social Security system, since anyone currently under the age of 45 will be SCREWED by the current system unless liberals stop road-blocking options for us young-un's. (my own low-risk privately managed account this year has returned FIVE TIMES the interest that the Social Security account has). Until the rules change, though, I will keep throwing money into SS because the law makes me.

2) Insurance: Car insurance charges more if you are are likely to cost THEM more (this is as it SHOULD be... similar to what I propose for college education)

3) Grade Schools: Although we personally have no kids, I FULLY support paying for grade school & high school costs (since the purpose of this BASIC education is to benefit ALL of society, and avoid having people dependent on welfare)
 

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Discussion Starter #13
krookednose7 said:
That college student may be your doctor/lawyer/stock broker/accountant/etc. in the future, would you not want them to be the best that they could be? I think people need to stop being so self-concerned
So........Is being a great mechanic/electrician/soldier/skyscraper builder/soldier any LESS noble than being an accountant, frivolous-lawsuit attorney, or stockbroker-huckster??? (speaking as a business-school degree-holder myself who has worked as many blue-collar jobs in my life as I have white-collar).

The comment about being "so self-concerned" needs to be asked of those who are about to rely on other's tax money to support THEIR own career choices.

(Full disclosure: I took advantage of a publicly-funded university myself, but if I had understood the truth back then, would have objected to allowing my blue-collar high school classmates being FORCED to pay for my choice) ;)
 

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people seem to lose sight of the fact that this is a democracy ... for and by the people, not for 1 and by 1.
 

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I'm not sure how long public funding has been going on in the US but have you even seen how much tuition costs nowadays? Look at how much inflation has increased on average in the past 20 years and then look at how much the cost of tuition has increased. I'm not surprised that the American public has to foot the bill with these high costs. I agree that its not fair but it does go to a good cause. (In most cases)
 

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thats why i dropped out of college. im 21 and make 20k a month now,, for any1 who doubts it ill provide pay stubs.. i started on a summer job selling cars making 10k a month and now i work at a large mortgage company.. i think college is good for those who arent fortunate enough to know how to make money or rather know what they want to do with their lives.. i will never go back..
 

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I think the big picture here is that if society invests in educating its citizens, the economy grows and we all are better off. This has been a big issue in Maine as we have a local "brain drain" and losing a lot of our brightest kids that are relocating out-of-state. State universities are like roads, water supply, health care, etc. that are the infrastructure that makes our economy work. If we deny middle low class the benefits of higher education, the big money is going to continue to go where it usually goes, to those that already have it from their parents. I've got kids in college, and even with whatever state subsidy we get, the cost is a killer for families. Wealthy families can afford to send their kids to the $40k/yr private schools, we can't. I'd also point out that the best deals in education, both for individuals and the community, are at those *subsidized* community and technical colleges.
 

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I hate taxes. I wish they would call it something else. Why do I pay property tax on my house and cars every single year? Call it something else like a "use" tax. I do have a problem with paying for schools. I do not have kids and could give a rats ass about them. Maybe one day if I have them, I would feel different, but right now I see it as a waste of money. You should have the choice on your property tax to decide where you want the money to go. I would choose 100% roads at this point in my life. Those with kids could choose 100% school systems. That would make me feel better.
 
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