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Me and my friends were wondering if it would be possible to run the sr20det on a sr20de ecu without it being modified by JWT. By this i mean get a Apex-I Super AFC and do all the air fuel tuning ourselfs. Has anyone attempted this or is a JWT ecu the only option. Chances are i'll get a JWT ecu but if this is doable we might try to skip it and tune it ourselves to aviod haveing to send the ecu away pretty much everytime i get a useful mod.
 

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It's not worth the trouble. I believe you'll have to change the maps more than the S-AFC will allow. If I were you I'd just save up the extra money for the JWT ECU, just include it in your budget and plan to spend the money for it. Besides, if you run different injectors and stuff I don't believe the S-AFC can correct the ECU to accept those changes, if that makes sense. That and the money you'd spend to dyno tune the car and make it run correctly (possibly blowing a motor in the process) would be more than the difference between the S-AFC and the JWT ECU.
 

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i actually think its possible, there was a tread on sr20deforums.com i think where ppl were arguing over the 2 concepts. yes its possible, but in the end the cost is about the same after tuning and everything. so i would say, just go with the ecu instead.
 

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JustinP10 said:
It's not worth the trouble.
<snip>
That and the money you'd spend to dyno tune the car and make it run correctly (possibly blowing a motor in the process) would be more than the difference between the S-AFC and the JWT ECU.

akuma810 said:
i actually think its possible, there was a tread on sr20deforums.com i think where ppl were arguing over the 2 concepts. yes its possible, but in the end the cost is about the same after tuning and everything. so i would say, just go with the ecu instead.
It's probably possible to monkey a solution and a few people have tried. In the end it still remains a half-assed solution and I don't think the people who tried it continued down that path for long.

Bottom line is it just isn't worth it. If you can't afford the ECU, just put off the swap a little longer until you can. It's truely plug and play. You'll be happy you got it in the long run. There are plenty of other things to worry about with a swap. Trust me.
 

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You wouldn't want to use a DE ECU, you'd want to start with the DET ECU, assuming it runs the car at all. MAF incompatiblility or some such. :rolleyes: Yes, the S-AFC can do things like adjust for injectors and MAF sensor changes, but it's no fun trying to make it work. Bite the bullet and do it right; JWT more than likely knows waaay more about SR20DE[T]s than you and "a buddy" do. :)

"Useful Mod" is a relative term, too. Step one, get the DET installed and prove that it runs. Toot around on the DET ECU for a few weeks while your DE ECU is being reprogrammed ($600?). Once you're sure that it works, start saving money for said "useful mods," such as 50lb/hr injectors and a Z32 MAF. Use the JWT ECU in this time period while you're getting bored with having "only" 210 HP (which is only a 50% increase over what you currently have). Buy fuel and air upgrade parts (which are good for about 400 WHP), plug in the DET ECU, and ship yours back to JWT for reprogramming ($100). Install your parts, plug in the JWT ECU again, and light 'er up.

Then, when you have a bigger turbo, and dial boost, and get a manifold upgrade, and a bigger turbo, and more boost, and get fuzzy dice, and get a bigger turbo, and dial more boost, and get a Type-R cupholder; your computer's already configured for it. What else do you need to tune your ECU for?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Yeah thats basically my thoughts too, but my friends are convinced that i don't need my ecu reprogrammed and that we can do it with a s-afc. But i figure i'll probably get the JWT ecu because its easier.
On another note i might not get a det anymore i have my old motor sitting around and i think i'm gonna rip it apart and build it up, that way its a beast from the start and i have the motor close to the way i want it from the begining. What do you guys think of 9:1 compression?
Plans:
Forged pistions (possibly 9:1)
Metal head gasket
Front mount
550 injectors
t3/t4
Port & polish the head
3 angle vavle job
JWT S3 cams
JWT reprogrammed ecu
lightened flywheel while the motors out.
and pretty much a full rebuild of the bottom end ( it had rod knock)

Also, this is going to be an ongoing project i don't plan on haveing everything till next summer. ( still a college student and broke a lot of the time)
My guess is this is gonna cost me about $4000
 

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If you mean 50lb/hr injectors, and you use a 300ZX or a Q45 MAF sensor, that combo should be good for 400 WHP if you get the right turbo hybrid. Maybe less with those cams, I'm not sure. That's very similar to an F-Max setup, something JWT is intimately familliar with.

Tell your buddies to go tweak their MAP sensors. ;)
 

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Blue93G20 said:
9:1 compression?
Should work OK. If you can get to 8.5:1 it would be better.

Blue93G20 said:
Plans:
Forged pistions (possibly 9:1)
Metal head gasket
Front mount
550 injectors
t3/t4
Port & polish the head
3 angle vavle job
JWT S3 cams
JWT reprogrammed ecu
lightened flywheel while the motors out.
and pretty much a full rebuild of the bottom end ( it had rod knock)

<snip>

My guess is this is gonna cost me about $4000

For that money, build the engine you have IMHO - especially if you want more than DET hp. Ditch the metal clad head gasket. Worthless and touchy to work with.

Be careful about turbo selections. There are better ones out there now, but I'm not the turbo guru. Boogie could probably give you some great advice.
 

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Current generation "Super" AFC can adjust fuel requirements 50% either direction, so it should be able to adjust for most combinations of MAF, injectors, etc. Wherein the problem lies is that on a SR20DE ECU, it cannot handle the amount of adjustment necessary to compensate for larger injectors. Basically the ECU knows what's up, thinks something is wrong with the MAF, and puts the car into limp mode.

I myself am not particularly fond of JWT's very, very rich programming (put a wideband on one if you don't believe me). They do this to keep things safe, but it's not best for power. You are also unable to lean a JWT equipped car out for race gas, which IMO is a big, huge, fat red X sign for me. When race gas and leaning it out 10% can gain me 100HP at the wheels, then by God I want to do that.

What my recommendation is, and what I will be doing here sometime soon is installing the JWT tuned ECU, then installing an AFC on top of it, simply for fine tuning and race gas tuning, and that's it. Your average monkey cannot do this, so some knowledge or airflow and injector requirements is necessary, along with access to a wideband O2, or someone with some tuning sense to tune it with.

If anyone tells you that black boxes suck, I went 11.8 @ 119.7 (so far) on a daily driven Mitsubishi Eclipse. Buschur ran an 8.0 using a black box in his current RWD car, so they cannot be all that bad. It just requires some tuning know how to make it work.

Basically, if you are asking this sort of question here, then you need to go with the JWT setup.
 

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jayntguru said:
Basically, if you are asking this sort of question here, then you need to go with the JWT setup.
Bull's eye.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
We know how to use a s-afc my friend also has a gen two eclipse with a t3/t4 setup and we have tuned it numorus times. I was just asking to see if the ecu would mess up like you said and go to limp mode. So more then likely i'll go with the JWT ecu until i can afford to buy a s-afc to go on top of it for fine tuning. Thanks for the info, any other comments.
 
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