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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
This info was created by Jdub on Supramania. He is THE MAN when it comes to this stuff. I think it would do the world a great good to learn this :):


Many years ago when the 1st syn oils came out, they were almost pure PAO oil. One thing straight PAO does is cause seal shrinkage...leading to the urban legend that syn oils cause leaks. All the major oil companies fixed this very quickly by adding esters to the oil. Ester makes seals swell and counteracts the effect of the PAO. That, plus other additives in syn oils, have completely eliminated any seal problems. The only thing you may see on a high mileage motor with poor seals is syn oils do a very good job of dissolving all deposits. Some of these deposits might be the only thing left keeping the seal from leaking



First up is Royal Purple:

Royal Purple is a "boutique" oil in that it's a Group IV & Group V blend of PAO and ester base stocks. Their consumer line of motor oil is API certified to SL specifications, with the exception of the 20W-50 which is a SJ spec...their XPR racing line is not API/ILSAC certified. In addition, the 5W-20, 5W-30, and 10W-30 are rated API energy conserving. I do not recommend you use the XPR line in a street car...it lacks many of the additives you want in a daily driven machine. In this case, "racing" is not better

Royal Purple oils are more slanted toward the hi-performance/racing crowd in general and as a result, the additive pack contains less detergents and anti-oxidants than what you will see in German Castrol or Redline. Unless you do oil analysis, a 5000 mile change interval will keep the oil from degrading to the point where it's not doing it's job....IMO, a 8000 mile OCI would be safe for this oil if city driving is what you primarily do. The filter will need to be changed at the 4000 mile point for an 8K OCI.

Royal Purple's color comes from dye used in the formulation; German Castrol was green a couple of years ago (elves?) for the same reason. All oils (including syn oils) are refined clear...dye is added for marketing. Moly comes in two forms (maybe more)...inorganic MoS2 which must be in a carrier (suspension) to flow and an organic type which is soluble in oil. Royal Purple uses the organic moly as a friction modifier and actually contains less organic moly than Redline does. This type of moly will not clog up your filter.

I would like to point out something you will see on oil data sheets that's fairly common concerning viscosity:

Royal Purple 5W-30
40 deg C - 65.3 centistrokes
100 deg C - 11.0 centistrokes

Royal Purple 10W-30
40 deg C - 70.3 centistrokes
100 deg C - 10.7 centistrokes

The 5W oil is a bit thinner than the 10W at cold temps as expected, but the 5W is actually thicker than the 10W at operating temp. This is due to the friction modifiers used in the oil and illustrates another point: Oil never thickens up when hot, it always thins to the SAE viscosity spec shown in the 2nd number on the API stamp.

Auto and manual transmission oils live a much easier life than motor oil...they do not have to deal with combustion by-products. As a result, most will perform very well. Royal Purple's manual transmission oil is excellent...most syn oils of this type are. Redline is another excellent choice.

Auto tranny oil is actually hydraulic oil. The #1 killer is heat....all of them (DEXRON III spec) will perform well if you have a good cooler. Adding a transmission filter pre-cooler is also a very good idea, as is a temp gauge. Royal Purple, Redline, Castrol, and Valvoline are excellent choices.

Royal Purple 80W-90 and Redline 75W-90 LSD oils work very well in a LSD that's in good shape. Keep in mind, both contain the friction modifiers necessary for the LSD...Redline 75W-90 NS does not have the modifiers. However, if the LSD has a lot of wear, either of these syn LSD oils may cause excessive slip. In this case, the Ford 75W-90 may be a better choice...you will also need the Ford friction modifier.

http://www.royalpurple.com/techa/faqsa.html#mo4
http://www.royalpurple.com/prodsa/rpmoa.html
http://www.royalpurple.com/techrp/synerleca.html
http://www.royalpurple.com/prodsa/mgeara.html
http://www.royalpurple.com/prodsa/rpmoa.html
 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
This info was created by Jdub on Supramania. He is THE MAN when it comes to this stuff. I think it would do the world a great good to learn this :):


Next up is Castrol SynTec European Formula 0W-30 (aka German Castrol, it must say made in Germany on the back):

It’s API Service Category SL, SJ. It exceeds ACEA A3 requirements and meets ILSAC GF-3/GF-2 emission system capability requirements. This oil far exceeds API Service Category SF, SG requirements.

Here's the data sheet

This data sheet is provides minimum info…I’ll add a few pertinent figures:
40 deg C viscosity (from analysis): 72.9 cSt
Velocity Index (from analysis): 166
Pour Point (from Material Safety Sheet): -40 deg F
Flash Point (from Material Safety Sheet): 437 deg F
A basic volatility test revealed: a 9% loss at 4 hours and 17.5% loss at 8 hours at ~340 deg F.

Here’s an oil analysis from another user on a virgin oil sample (in PPM):

Iron..................3
Silicon...............4
Sodium............14
Potassium……....12
Moly................<5
Phosphorus…...903
Zinc.............1157
Calcium.........1941
Magnesium......770

Gas Chromatograph and Fourier Transform Infrared (FTIR) analysis revealed the base stock appears to be a blend of mostly 4 cSt PAO with either 6 cSt or 8 cSt cuts. The oil is comprised of Group IV PAO base stock (plus additives). The above analysis did not show any esters in this oil, but a different, more thorough EI and CI Mass Spectrometer analysis did reveal esters of a type not seen in other oils.

Why would I use this oil? Its very good ;)

- German Castrol is a true synthetic oil…no Group I, II, or III base stock at all. IMO this is important for a turbo car considering the heat produced by the turbo. I did not want any problems keeping my SP61 turbo cool (it’s oil cooled only) and avoid any chance of the oil coking on engine shutdown.
- The oil flows very well cold, getting the oil up to the cams and to the bearing quickly where it’s needed the most. German Castrol is on the thick side for a 0W-30…the 40 deg C and 100 deg C (operating temp) cSt numbers confirm this.
- At engine operating temperature, this oil gives me excellent pressure at idle (10-15 psi) and at 3000 rpm (45-50 psi)
- The Viscosity Index is high, indicating that this oil will resist viscosity degradation over time. It appears to have few viscosity modifiers as additives…this means the base oil itself handles the rated viscosity range very well. It also means a higher percentage of actual oil vs additives.
- The oil has low volatility and a high flash point, indicating consumption from oil evaporation will be minimal. This is typical for synthetic oils.
- German Castrol has an excellent additive pack. Well formulated detergents and anti-wear additives. My only wish is that it had a bit more moly
- Not scientific, but my valve train is quieter running this oil…definite difference from Mobil 1 5W-30 and Amsoil 0W-30 I’ve tried. It’s quite possible the thicker nature of the German Castrol is the reason.

I also run a quart of 100% ester based oil (VP Racing RS530…another excellent oil) as a seal conditioner. The ester helps to keep the seals soft and keep the motor clean. This is probably not necessary due to the formulation of German Castrol, but it sure won’t hurt either

German Castrol can run at an 8,000 mile change interval…a PAO base stock oil will easily go this long. Based on other results others have seen with this oil doing the same thing, it should last until the 12-15,000 mile range.

The only place I know of in the US to get the German Castrol is at AutoZone…you may have to ask for it or special order it. It only comes in a 0W-30…any other Castrol SynTec you see on the shelf is a Group III base stock…it is not a true synthetic oil. In Canada, it’s my understanding is WalMart and Canadian Tire sell the German Castrol. This oil would be especially good for those cold winters up North
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
This info was created by Jdub on Supramania. He is THE MAN when it comes to this stuff. I think it would do the world a great good to learn this :):



Next is the regarded as "High and mighty" Mobil 1:

The only reason I'm doing this is 1) Mobil 1 is a very popular oil and 2) Mobil 1 is not entirely what it claims to be.

Mobil 1 HM 10W-30 is API Service Category SL,SJ,CF. It meets ACEA A3/B3 and A3/B4 requirements. Mobil 1 HM 10W-40 is API Service Category SL,SJ,CF....it does not meet/list ACEA specifications.

Here is the MSDS

Both oils are on par with what you would expect for their given grades. Both have excellent flash points and pour points...the 10W-30 is very good pour point wise, it's good down to -54 deg C. IMO, the 10W-30 would be a great all year oil...there really is no point changing to the 10W-40 for the summer. the 10W-30 will perform very well even during the summer heat. Both oils have a robust additive pack.

Mobil 1 uses Group III + alphaolefins (AN) base oils including polyalphaolefins (PAO)...however, the primary base stock is Group III.


Quote:
In 2006, the results of a gas chromatography test on Mobil 1 5w-30 EP were posted by an industry expert on the popular motor oil discussion website BITOG. It showed the oil to be primarily composed of a less expensive, Group III processed mineral oil. Until this time, Mobil 1 was believed to be a true synthetic, utilizing a Group IV (PAO) base stock. The release of this information has led to a backlash against Exxon Mobil's lubricant products in many automotive communities. Ironically, in 1999, Mobil fought Castrol's change in formulation to a Group III base stock in motor oils being marketed as fully synthetic. Mobil claimed that Castrol was deceiving their customer base, while degrading their products. The National Advertising Division of the Council of Better Business Bureaus eventually ruled that Castrol could continue to market their SynTec line as a fully synthetic motor oil. Exxon Mobil currently refuses to comment on the primary base stock of their Mobil 1 series of oils. This has only added further confusion over the exact definition of the term "synthetic oil."

So far, I have not seen any further info on Mobil 1 oils that contradicts the above quote. I have seen this US Patent application by Exxon Mobil:

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...DN/20060211581

The cliff notes on this is Exxon wants to patent the process to utilize Group III base stock with AN and PAO modifiers for use as "synthetic" base stock...one would assume this means their Mobil 1 line of oils. Since PAO and AN are rather expensive, the majority of the base stock is very likely to be Group III...by definition not a true synthetic oil. Appears to me they want to sell us oil marketed as a synthetic, at synthetic prices and increase their profit margin....I guess last year's record profit for any US company wasn't good enough

Keep in mind, Group III base stock does not make Mobil 1 a bad oil...it's actually very good. Take a look at the above pics...very clean...no deposits at all. It justs chaffs my tail pipe to pay synthetic prices and get a Group III oil...especially when Exxon will not come clean about it. Pennzoil Platinum is also using a Group III...the company makes no secret about it. In fact, their Platinum line is among the best there is due to the technology behind refining it.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Amsoil is also very good, and they provide a TON of info on their website to prove it
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Personally I use Nippon Eneos 0w50 now in my race Surpa:
here is the MSDS, http://www.eneos.us/documents/MSDS_0W50.pdf

Aluminum:1
Chromium:0
Iron:1
Copper:0
Lead:0
Tin:0
Molybdenum:42
Nickel:0
Manganese:0
Silver:0
Titanium:0
Potassium:2
Boron:59
Silicon:3
Sodium:7
Calcium:1811
Magnesium:20
Phosphorus:662
Zinc:790
Barium:0

SuS @210*F: 85.2
Flashpoint *F: 425
TBN: 8.5


This info was created by Jdub on Supramania. He is THE MAN when it comes to this stuff. I think it would do the world a great good to learn this :):

Unfortunately there is no data for some parameters i would like to know. I'll work on getting an oil sample of my used oil.
I was able to dig up a virgin oil analysis (VAO) done on the Eneos 0W-50:

Quality grade RG/API SM
SAE viscosity grade 0W-50
Appearance Orange
Density (15°C), g/cm3 0.847
Flash point (COC), °C 232
Kinematic viscosity (40°C), mm2/s 104
(100°C), mm2/s 18.0
Viscosity index 192
Pour point, °C –45.0
TAN, mgKOH/g 2.3
TBN (HCl), mgKOH/g 6.4
Color (ASTM) L3.0

It appears the 0W-50 is a PAO base stock with ester added as a seal conditioner. The add pack seems a bit light for a street driven car...though, the TBN was higher than the advertised 6.4. This oil is thinner than the other 50W multigrades on the market, meaning it will flow better, but not near as well as a 0W or 5W-30. Could be due to Eneos' focus on racing (like Royal Purple)...this oil does not look well suited to extended drain intervals, but should be fine for at least 5000 miles. Which is why I use it for racing. For a street driven car you would want to use Eneos' 5w40

In the track car, the engine temp however did run 10 degrees cooler overall taking the average temp from several events before the switch to Eneos and then after the switch. The Supra also maintained 5psi of oil press. higher when it was HOT!

So whether you need the 0w50 or 5w50 for racing, or 5w40 for your street car I have both available. The 50weights go for $9-$10 a quart where the 40weight is $7.
 

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CH0DEmobile
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Awesome info man! I've been trying to find the best oil for my high-milage SR (230k right now). I'm currently using Mobil1 10w40, but I've been considering changing it up. What would you recommend for a higher mileage engine?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
It depends whether you're looking for performance or just the reliability for your daily driver. With higher mileage I'm assuming its the reliability factor, keep the 10w40 but I'd say go with the Castrol Syntec made in Germany (CG) if you can find it. Its the European formula and it says MADE IN GERMANY on the back, be sure to search.
Good PAO based synthetics will be expensive, so if you cant find the CG, Pennzoil Platinum is another very good oil that I dont believe is as expensive as others. And go with a Purolator Pure One filter. I'll be posting up a section of oil filter analysis' too.

Admins. Can we make this a sticky>?
 

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wow great info.

I've been using Greddy Synthetic Oil 5W-30 for over a year. I used to use Mobil 1 5W-30, then made a change to greddy. Good Oil and no complaints at all.

I've read some threads about oil in the sr20forum a while back, and a lot of people say that Royal Purple robs horsepower.

Can you get us info for: Motul Oil, Elf Synthetics, and Liqui Moly
 

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Pizdeet kak Trotsky
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Amsoil is also very good, and they provide a TON of info on their website to prove it
I'm still testing oils to see what suits my car the best ....... This I do know ..... If Amsoil say its dark outside I'd put my head out of the window to check..... Amsoil say their oil is fantastic ..... It isn't, its good but not fantastic & not worth the price premium. Amsoil say they guarantee their oil ..... I say read the small print. On balance a lot of other oil companies are lying thieving bastards too. :beard:

At the moment I'm using Mobil1 5W30 & it seems ok ....... I recon it could be due a analysis soon...... Mind you I'm pretty bored with the analysis game as it is more expensive than changing the oil ..... Couple that with the residual value of P11's these days & well...... Ya see my point...... :beard:
 

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Discussion Starter #11
And what exactly about Amsoil is it that you don't like? They are more performance oriented oils not as well suited for daily drivers and since they run thinner as synthetics that would also make them less ideal for the very low temperatures you see in the UK during winter. If you dont like it because you dont feel any power or any difference look below. As for now what does make Amsoil good, like other PAO and full Poly ester base stock oils is their resistance to shear (which is the metal that gets worn away EVERY time your piston goes up and down). Picking a oil based on power claims is ridiculous, oils dont create power or free up power, they protect. And also if you like an oil because it keeps your head clean that may be relevant, but also irrelevant if your bottom end is sitting in the bottom of your oil pan. The protection oil creates is too minuscule to be seen with the eye, thats why oil analysis reveals things and gives concrete proof that "I like this oil because..." doesn't.
As for Royal Purple actually robbing power, shame on these myths. Even the oil I like, Eneos, that claims to add power. Any power gains reflected on dyno sheets due to oil are well within the margin of error. Dyno is not exacting. I could change nothing on my car exept doing a wicked rain dance in full tribal gear and I bet it would go up 1 or 2 or 3hp.
 

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uruG 02G
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So the German Castrol and the US Castrol SynTec are seperate? Any idea where one is sold vs. the other?

Rain dance in tribal gear. that's freakin funny. :D
 

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Discussion Starter #13
German stuff is indeed very hard to find now. If you can, buy it all. Wal Mart, Autozone, Kragen.
The dumb parts jockeys didnt even know the GOLDMINE of precious oil they were sittin on!

PS: I have Eneos Oil for sale!
 

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Pizdeet kak Trotsky
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And what exactly about Amsoil is it that you don't like?
My amsoil had done 7,500 miles & after oil analysis it had a TBN of less than one..... So I replaced the oil, 6K later another analysis TBN Less than one... pretty poor for a oil that proclaims to give 24K service, I contacted amsoil who suggested there was somthing wrong with the car & suggested I have it looked at, I pressed them a little for some suggestions as to which particular area might require investigation & after to'ing & fro'ing emails they offered me a settlement with a gagging clause. I didn't even bother to respond to that.

In my little world you use spanners & knowledge to repair cars, not cheque books & court rooms :beard:
 

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Discussion Starter #16
My amsoil had done 7,500 miles & after oil analysis it had a TBN of less than one..... So I replaced the oil, 6K later another analysis TBN Less than one... pretty poor for a oil that proclaims to give 24K service, I contacted amsoil who suggested there was somthing wrong with the car & suggested I have it looked at, I pressed them a little for some suggestions as to which particular area might require investigation & after to'ing & fro'ing emails they offered me a settlement with a gagging clause. I didn't even bother to respond to that.

In my little world you use spanners & knowledge to repair cars, not cheque books & court rooms :beard:
Well the place to look at the TBN would be in the virgin analysis. If your taking it out afterwards, that oil's already been used and abused and of course the TBN would be low then. Here is what TBN is:
TBN determines how effective the control of acids formed will be during the combustion process. The higher the TBN, the more effective it is in suspending wear-causing contaminants and reducing the corrosive effects of acids over an extended period of time.So that would lead you to think this oil is very easily contaminable right? Well no, the oil has already been contaminated with use, so ofcourse that number would be low. If you have a low TBN on your used sample, you should look at TAN.
TAN (Total Acid number) is the inverse measurement of TBN. It is covered under ASTM D 664 and refers to the level of acid contamination caused by combustion.
You really need a virgin sample to determine what's going on. If the virgin sample has a high TBN like Eneos and then ends up with 1 AND your TAN is high in the used sample i'd say it looks like you have some piston ring issues which would've made AMSOil correct


Oh and I dont care who says what, no oil ever has a 24K service life. The longest something should go for is 10K, and thats even kind of pushing it.
 

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Wow, great posts! The time you took to post this information is much appreciated. Looks like I'm on the hunt for German Oil for my VE.....:alien:



Again, many thanks for a great read from all of us over at the dash....



Dudeman
 
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