[foneguy]

I am from New Zealand and own a 1998 Primera Wagon with the CVT M6 tranny. Although the SR20VE engine puts out near to 190HP, you don't feel it. It is slower from 0-60mph than my old P10 manual. It is also 1340kgs instead of 1170kgs as my old P10 was, so it is a fair bit heavier.

It's roughly 9.5 seconds from 0-100km/hr (62mph for you Americans) whereas my P10 was around 8.3 seconds. My P10 did the 400metres (approx. 1/4mile) in 16.4, this one is 17.3 seconds.

Now the reason is that although it has a 6 speed tiptronic CVT gearbox, 1st gear is extremely high geared. It does around 80km/hr (50mph) in 1st gear (at 7300rpm) before the tranny automatically shifts it into 2nd, so it is almost like starting a manual of in 2nd gear and seeing how fast you can accelerate. From 30mph onwards, it's a rocketship. You can be travelling down the road at 30-35mph and tiptronic it down into 1st gear with your foot flat and it fair pins you too your seat.

I am however looking at putting a manual gearbox into my wagon as the 0-30mph section is sluggish (and 1600cc manual cars beat me off the line at the moment). I am inquiring as to whether or not I will need an ECU change, and have emailed Justin on this Forum to find out what issues he had. You can see my car on the New Zealand Primera Car Club page under "members cars" listed as Foneguy.

http://www.primeracarclub.co.nz

Cheers guys

 

[foneguy]

Hi Guys,

Also will a standard Primera 5 speed gear box be good enough to handle the power of the SR20VE engine on the M6 primera.

Thanks

Daminda

The power difference is all mathematics. 190Hp versus 150HP. At peak torque the VE engine is only putting out 7% more power than the DE engine. The only reason the HP is rated so much higher is that the torque curve on the VE engine holds on into the higher rev range and doesn't start flattening off until over 7000rpm, whereas the standard DE engine torque curve begins to plummet after 5000rpm. It is torque that you feel, it's just that HP sells cars.

HP= Torque (ft/lbs) X RPM
----------------------------
5252

Thats how they work it out, so don't be worried about the P10 gearbox being able to handle the power, its don't that much different.

 

[foneguy]

The CVT M6 transmission is a Continuously Variable Transmission which is effectively 2 tapered pulleys with a steel belt drive, but it has a manual over-ride option where you pull the shift lever over to the left and you have a + - option with 6 fixed shift points.

It's actually very clever how it works, however they are not repairable if they break, and extremely expensive, even for a second hand one.

When you use the "DRIVE" position, and put you foot hard down, the engine climbs to around 6800rpm and holds there while your car accelerates. My boss calls my car "the one with the slipping clutch" cos' that's how it sounds.

 

[foneguy]

It's plain to see you've never driven one.
When in DRIVE mode, the engine is not instantly sitting at 6800rpm, it rises to around 3000rpm until the Torque Converter lets go at around 20mph and then climbs gradually as the speed increases and doesn't get up over 6000rpm until your at around 50mph. The ratio is constantly changing all the time. It's 0-30mph acceleration is very sluggish, but better in Tip Tronic.

It's like to transmission is trying to play "catchup" with the engine, but you do get some form of lockup when using Tip tronic.

My 0-100km/hr time is slower in DRIVE than when using Tip-Tronic.

0-100km/hr in Tip Tronic is 9.5 seconds
0-100km/hr in DRIVE is 10.5 seconds

The only time I use DRIVE when wanting faster acceleration is when doing 110km/hr (around 70mph) or faster on the Highway for overtaking. The reason for this is the CVT ECU forces the tranny to shift from 3rd into 4th too early and you fall out of the powerband, whereas DRIVE leaves you in it at this speed and well beyond. It will hold at 6800rpm right through to speed limiter cut in at around 180km/hr (115mph)

 

[foneguy]

I know that regular autos should be serviced once a year depending on mileage. The CVT fluid needs to be changed every 60,000kms or 35,000miles. The fluid is expensive. 4 litres of CVT fluid is around $100, more expensive than normal auto transmission fluid. You cannot put regular auto tranny fluid into a CVT, it will last about a month and blow up.

When I test drove an HP10 Primera auto about 3 1/2 years ago, it did 0-100km/hr in around 9 seconds flat. I ended up buying a 5 speed manual instead that did around 8.5 seconds. Don't forget, the 2 litre SR20DE engine in our Jap imported P10 models are rated at 110KW or 147HP or 150PS. I believe yours in the US are rated slightly lower. The P10 Primera's only way 1170kgs, whereas my WHP11 wagon weighs 1340kgs, so 170kgs heavier.

Another interesting test that I posted on the NZ Primera car Club forum was 80km/hr-120km/hr acceleration times (50-75mph).

My wagon does it in 4.97 seconds, whereas my 2 litre P10 manual Primera used to do it in around 5.6 seconds, so at certain areas, my CVT M6 wagon has more power.

Another test I posted was 0-100km/hr (62mph) but you were not allowed to exceed 3000rpm in any gear.

My CVT M6 wagon will do it in 14.5 seconds, whereas most 5 speed manual drivers who tried it where struggling to get anywhere near that, in fact most where around 18 seconds, showing the superior torque and gear ratios of the SR20VE engine.

Sorry, but this is probably more info than you asked for but I guess part of being in a forum like this is being passionate about your vehicle.

 

[foneguy]

however, I did not realize that the transmission took -that- long to get up to redline.
Maybe Nissan needs CVT computer programmers? I should look into this.

Yep, it's because the 1st gear ratio is so high (50mph in 1st gear@7300rpm redline). So when you're in DRIVE and stomp on it from the lights, the car feels like it's bogging down initially until the torque converter does it's thing until around 20mph, then the revs climb to around 5000rpm and holds there until around 35-40mph and then climbs up matching the speed of the car from there onwards. As max HP is at 7000rpm in the VE engine, the rpm never get to that in DRIVE but will top out at around 6500-6800rpm.

Holding it in 1st will let it get to redline in 1st so you can take advantage of that wonderful VE torque curve, then it will automatically shift into 2nd at 50mph, into 3rd at 62mph (close ratios), but then an annoying thing happens. At 115km/hr (72mph, the CVT forces itself into 4th and you drop out of the powerband back to around 5500rpm. At this point under hard acceleration, I normally knock the shift lever back into DRIVE mode where the rpms climb back up to around 6800rpm giving me the best acceleration at speeds in excess of 115km/hr.

The CVT M6 model was not bought into NZ either, I only have one because NZ car dealers are really into importing 2nd hand Japanese cars and we have models over here you've probably never seen or heard of in the US.

 

[foneguy]

Re: torque converter or computer modification

Thanks for the FYI, it was actually helpful. Basically what you mean is the CVT is great when the car is already coasting and you want to accelerate but as far as acceleration from a stand still its not as great. Has anyone ever tried messing around with the transmission computer with the m6's or modifiy the torque converter?

Not as far as I am aware. They are pretty much a throw away sealed unit, and if they go bang, you either spend $5000 getting a 2nd hand unit or $10000 for a new one. Myself, I am preparing for a manual gearbox so I can sell my CVT M6 tranny while it still goes.